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Full Spectrum Cycling
Chewey’s Salon Chair #1 – Talking with Sov, formerly of Surly, in Decorah
Aug 30, 2020
Chewey’s Salon Chair #1 – Talking with Sov, formerly of Surly, in Decorah
15
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00:00
42:11
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Transcript
0:00
All right. We're recording. This is scary shit. I've never done this before. [laughs] It's just hitting a button.
0:06
Well, it, it, it is, but at the same time, I'm also like, I'm, I like watched videos on doing this and watched Greg do it, and Greg's really good at it. Well, Greg's just a smart guy.
0:14
Yeah, and then everybody else is like... Sitting where you're sitting is really easy. [laughs] Sitting where I'm at is like I'm fucking freaking out already. Well, you're- All right.
0:22
So we're gonna leave that in there- You're a trooper. [laughs] We're gonna leave that in there anyway.
0:25
So, um, and we actually have no name for this podcast, that's why we just started talking rather than actually playing- I like it... playing music or something.
0:32
Um, and we're not at the picture that Greg had online of my shop with my little broadcast studio in the corner. Oh, that is cool. Um- Does it still have the, uh, uh, the, the hairdryer that- Yep.
0:45
That's, that's for the guests. The hair- Oh. I like- The- I like that chair...
0:48
the hairdryer's where the guests sit, and then I, I have a, I have a nice little picture of d- uh, a pin-up doll that, or board that Tanner drew, and my jukebox and [laughs] everything back.
0:57
There's, there's a ukulele in there. It's kinda- Instead of the whole sound system, have you thought about just like an old-school, like, realistic tape player with the two buttons that you push down?
1:06
I could push it and y- go. I should. Just like when you tried to, when you tried to record the Journey song on the radio and you just had to get it at the right moment. Yeah. When we were kids, that's what we did.
1:15
We literally, we literally- Oh, yeah... just sat in the, in our, in downstairs in the basement and waited for... You know, you hope that the DJs would say what song is coming up so you could be ready. Otherwise- Yeah...
1:25
think about it, you missed like the first two, three seconds of every song- Yeah. Oh, I know... because you were hitting play and record at the same time. Is, if we're gonna try and keep this to a half-hour- Yeah. So-...
1:33
we better get going... let's go back. Yeah. [laughs] Is that, by the way- It-... are the cicadas going? Yeah. Like, it sounds so rustic. It is. Well, so we're, we're down at Decorah.
1:41
We're at our cabin out on the lake down here. Um, Eric Sovereign lives literally, uh, five of our blocks, 'cause none of our blocks are equal, but it's sorta like five blocks up the hill from us. Five blocks up the hill.
1:52
Um- We figured it was... We, we argued whether it was 80 feet or 100 feet up from here. But yeah, it's, it's, it's up from here, and it is all up from here.
1:59
Um, and so this is my first podcast, and I figured the only way I'm gonna do one is if I can get Sov to actually do it with me- [laughs]... because when you think about it, he is the, uh, um...
2:10
well, he was kind of the voice for Surly. He was definitely the voice for many of the Single Speed World Championships, uh, Single Speed USA. Single Speed USA. Did you ever do any for Worlds, like in Napa or anything?
2:20
Uh, I didn't. No, I was not, uh, in the organizing committee, so I didn't... Uh, not in an official capacity. I may have just made a lot of noise. Well, it was just, yeah, just- [laughs]...
2:28
you put on a fucking cowboy hat and a megaphone and then walked the buildings. It was just- Yeah, that might've been it. And then he's also... Well, you are the voice for almost all the Homie Fests, right?
2:37
Uh, I did do that for quite a while. I, actually, I...
2:40
You know, it, th- it was the middle years of the Homie Fall Fest, when, uh, you know, the original people didn't wanna do it anymore, and then Corson and I and, and Brower kinda took over for a while.
2:51
And, and now he's out of the bike industry. Entirely. Entirely. That I did. Um, I'll ask right away- She just couldn't... you like that? Are, do you miss it? I, you know, I, I miss the people.
3:01
The, uh, I, I worked with great folks, and I got to see great people, and then there's so many good bike shops. And, you know, I, honestly, though, I mean, I've, I've been in bikes 25 years or something like that.
3:13
I mean, I got my first bike shop job in 1989, and apart from a couple other things. I mean, it, it... So, so it was a long run, and I don't know. It, it's nice to not talk about bikes [laughs] for a while.
3:25
[laughs] Which, which is awesome because this is where this is going. This is where we're going. We're gonna talk about bikes.
3:29
But I, I, I pretty much told them that we're gonna do bike talk sort of, but there's gonna be... I've got friends that wanna talk about music. I got friends that wanna talk about, uh- I'm-... d- the world.
3:39
I don't know... beer. 'Cause I'm not getting involved. Beer. Yeah, well, these guys talk about beer, too. Um, so the other thing that, uh, probably nobody knows is that you are the voice of,
3:50
um, a Bucket Ball world championship. Oh, the Bucket Ball world championship. [laughs] That we've, uh... Uh, we- I was talking about that the other day. Actually, that was a,
3:58
um, that was a pivotal moment in my, in my son's life. Jack, who is w- next week he will, he's turning 13.
4:05
But, uh, when we first moved down to Decorah, which was, oh, 12 years ago, we started having, uh, like the Dirt Burger and having some people down for, you know, fun and enjoyment and ride the trails.
4:15
And we started playing Bucket Ball, and one of the first times that he came down, he was probably four or three or something like that, and he, Mom brought him down in the Burley, and, and we were all acting like yahoos and kicking a bucket around with our bikes.
4:28
And, and he went home, and he, we had gotten him one of those Strider bikes, and he had no interest in it. That's right. I remember this. [laughs] He was like, "I, uh, that's whatever.
4:37
I don't want anything to do with it." And he came down and watched us play Bucket Ball, and he, [laughs] he went home. Apparently, he said, he said, "Mama, get me a bucket."
4:45
[laughs] S- so he started kicking this little gallon pail around our little parking pad, and that was kind of how he started riding bikes.
4:52
So it's all downhill from Bucket Ball, but- [laughs] We, we only broke, uh, John Flex's toe once. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Safety tip: don't play Bucket Ball in sandals. Um, yes. That was ugly.
5:03
That was, I think I was in sandals, too, so I stayed clear- [laughs]... of just pretty much everything. I think you won that year. That was- Oh, that was- The inaugural... you know, yeah.
5:10
It was, uh, Fiona and I and, uh- Oguera... Oguera. Yeah. Yeah. And Fiona carried Oguera on her back. [laughs] I still, I still have that picture. [laughs] That's a good, that's a good, that's a good photo. Um,
5:22
now you own Cardboard Robot. Cardboard Robot. It's art supplies and, and cool toys and stuff like that. It's the, it's the opposite of what I used to do. [laughs] I, I can't say "fuck" as much. That sucks.
5:35
I- It's, it's, I don't really have the desire to, though. [laughs] It's like- That's the, the cool thing. I'm, I'm good with it. I, it's, I... Yeah, I struggle with it, and I do it too much.
5:44
[laughs] And I really have to be careful because it's really bad- I-... in my other lines of work, so. I went, I spent part of the '90s as a, as a social study teacher. I, I've done a lot of things. Oh, that's right.
5:54
Yeah. And I had a s- I had a switch. I could turn it off. Um, I, I enjoy colorful language. I like, I like cussing. I think that swallow just came through, didn't it? It did. [laughs] That's right.
6:05
Um, I th- I think, I think it's, it's got a great, uh, you can make a real colorful, uh, palette of, of words if you use a lot of the four letters. But I also, you know, there's a time and a place. I don't know.
6:17
I m- maybe I'm getting, you know, old and whatnot, but I don't care. Uh, but so no, I, I don't, I don't say fuck as much. But- So, so- [laughs]... you guys are doing okay through the whole COVID thing? Yeah.
6:28
You know, we were closed for two months, but we have an online store and, and a lot of locals, you know, sort of, uh, got orders to me, whether it was through the online store or through email or phone or Instagram or Facebook or standing outside the [laughs] window.
6:44
And, and so that was cool. And, you know, our sales went down and everything, but actually we're, it, we've had a pretty good... You know, we opened back up in June and, uh, and things are going pretty well.
6:53
I mean, we, we sell stuff that help, you know, it helps people get through times when you're not leaving the house, you know. I mean, uh, to do art and, and, and mess around with that kind of stuff. I mean,
7:04
you know, I... One of the reasons I started the, the business is because, like, there's no art supply store in Decorah, which is a very arty sort of community, and you'd think there'd be an art supply store.
7:13
And there's not. And it's not because, like, I'm some great artist or I've done it my whole life or it's what I always [laughs] wanted to do.
7:19
It was, like, sort of, well, here's an opportunity, plus art supplies are kickass. Have you ever just... Like, you just- No, my wife can't come in your store- Ah... because she buys something every time she walks in.
7:27
It's... All that stuff is so great, and it's cool, and, like, you get to show people maybe things that they haven't seen before, and we're small enough to where we can do that.
7:34
And so, I don't know, it's, it's, it's fun and exciting. Plus it's, it's fun to do something that I didn't know that much about, so I'm learning a whole bunch of stuff.
7:41
But so much of what I learned, you know, visiting bike shops, um, you know, like, you know, there's all those cool bike shops that work really well for whatever reason, and a lot of it is, you know, uh, uh, is the attitude of the people that work there.
7:55
Is it, you know, you make it kind of a clubhouse, or you make it interesting, or you make it, you know, uh, and you know, the, the shitty way to say it is, like, you, you develop a good brand.
8:04
Well, there's a- But it's, but it's real, you know. [laughs] Like you, you really do. And it, and it depends on who you're dealing with. I mean, it's like- Mm-hmm... um, uh, so the
8:12
month or so ago when I didn't, kinda got the idea that I'm gonna do this on my own- Yeah [laughs]... I went, I drove to Milwaukee. My, my very own podcast. [laughs] Yeah.
8:18
Well, it was, like, I thought, "Can I buy this system and just tie it into Greg's so I don't have to drive to Milwaukee all the time?" 'Cause it's not bad going over there. Yeah.
8:25
You still have to take a day off 'cause they, they do theirs on, their, on Friday. Oh, okay. But, but it's, it's, like, it was, it must be like Japan time, 'cause it's not really on a Friday there.
8:34
Well, Friday in Milwaukee is, like, Tuesday though, isn't it? Wednesday. Yeah.
8:38
And, and the, and the best part is is everything you and I just talked about was talked about last night, and I thank God you said what you did, because I pretty much said that last night.
8:45
[laughs] I'm like, "Oh, I hope that's how it's going for him." The weekend, the weekend in, in Milwaukee starts on Tuesday and ends the following Wednesday. Oh, that's horrible. It's, and it was...
8:55
So just imagine, I get there and I, Sue needed popcorn. And the, the, the story- [laughs] I mean, it's on the other podcast, but it was literally this- Sue needs popcorn...
9:02
Sue, Sue needed popcorn from Madison from the guy downtown, so I literally had- Oh... I had aspirations of going there and getting popcorn with the idea that I'm really gonna go to Milwaukee and hang out.
9:11
And, and it was fun, and we got incredibly drunk after the podcast was over with. Oh. But Greg's shop is like what you're talking about. Yeah. Greg's shop is- Yeah... very tiny and very cool and very- It's, it's that.
9:21
It's, like, the one-on-one. It's, you know, it's like Farmstead in, in, uh, in Minneapolis. Yeah. It's like, you know, there's so many shops that are like that. Uh, um, uh, yeah, there's a lot of them.
9:34
[laughs] Well, and, and, you know, when... Have you been to Gino's new shop? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's like a community in and of itself. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's a compound now. It, it is, yeah.
9:44
[laughs] Like, before it was, like, an alley in a, in a, in a weird, sketchy building. Now it's like this great compound.
9:49
I, I think he's, I think he's working on, uh, being, like, you know, an actual cult leader at some point. [laughs] But it'll, but it'll be, like, a benevolent, like, good kind of cult that- It should be, yeah...
9:59
you'd wanna join. He won't ask for all your money. You'll just have to sign on for whatever dumb idea he has. If you, if you want a key, if you want a key- Oh... to get into the gate. [laughs] Yeah.
10:07
"Who's wearing tube socks?" It's, uh, yeah, so it, it's, uh, I, he's, uh, it, the whole idea of doing this thing came from rather than doing a phone call in, if I got a system similar, would it tie in?
10:19
Well, that's, it- You sound, you sound way better than, on this than you sound on the phone. On the phone? Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. You sound like an asshole on the phone.
10:26
[laughs] That's 'cause I'm on the wrong side of the mic. [laughs] If I was on your side, I could be an asshole again. Wait a minute. Okay. Um, so what else? I don't even know how we do for time.
10:34
You got- We're only, we're only at 10 minutes, dude. We got time. I'm just, I'm just, I glanced. Seriously, if you keep this shit up- [laughs]...
10:39
you're gonna go on, you're gonna sit over on this mic and I'm gonna go over there instead. If you wanna run the fucking show- I just, I just-... just run it. Well, uh, uh, I, let's talk about bikes, and then- Okay...
10:46
and then we can get on with it. Okay, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. So, so this is, I'm gonna have to- What about bikes? Oh, I'm trying to hear- [laughs]
10:52
I'm trying to figure out how to do this exactly because don't forget, I had this conversation last night. Okay. So here's the question I'm gonna ask you. Okay. And then I have to add to the question now- Okay...
10:59
because I saw you earlier tonight. Okay. Uh, the question is e-bikes, yes or no? And the que- the answer is... I don't give a fuck.
11:05
I was gonna say because you rode by me this afternoon on a Krampus and you came down here on an e-bike. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Uh, he- here's the thing. Um, [laughs] there's no such thing...
11:19
Uh, uh, all right, let me back up a little bit. Freedom is a logical fallacy.
11:24
[laughs] Because if you have ultimate freedom, something that you do that you believe that you should do, uh, will e- eventually encroach on my freedom, and therefore I cannot have freedom. You know what I mean?
11:35
Like, if you wanna, if you wanna- This podcast was never supposed to get that deep. [laughs] No, I know. I know. I know. I was thinking about that.
11:41
And if, like, if you, if you have the freedom to drive as fast as you fucking want and, and drink as much as you want as you do it, like, that might encroach on my freedom if you hit me while I'm on my bike or whatever, you know what I mean?
11:52
So- Exactly, yeah. And so, uh, so I think a lot of people get all worked up about, like... [motorcycle revs] Ooh, Harley sounds. Oh, yeah, it comes through. It does. That's nice. Yeah.
12:02
Um, people get worked up about, like, what other people are doing. Like, uh, I don't know. It, it's sort of, y- you know, if... Oh, it, it's like the, uh, not to bring up, you know, the divisive subject, but
12:18
you know, when it comes to women's rights and things like that, and, uh, reproductive rights, like if you don't want an abortion, don't have one. You know, there's that old argument. It's sort of like an e-bike.
12:28
If you don't want an e-bike, then don't fucking buy one. And you know, people have gotten angry about, you know, e-bikes on trails and things like that, and I don't know. I mean, you're in a weird, weird zone for it, but
12:40
I, I don't know.
12:42
Well- I, I think, I think, I think there's a part of it that bike people get into, you know, everybody joins their little tribe, and then, and then they're like, "Well, either you can be in my tribe or you can't be in my tribe."
12:54
Single speeding is a great example of this. Perfect example.
12:56
Where, you know, single speeding was an, was a reaction to, you know, the dominant paradigm of cycling, which was like go fast, get, get lighter stuff, get better stuff, spend more money, be flashier, and it was sort of like, well, let's step back and do something that's simple and dumb.
13:12
Which- But then the simple and dumb became flashy and stupid and, you know- Well, and I think we've talked about in other stuff, you know, and part of that's driven by the industry itself. I mean- Oh, yeah...
13:21
look, look what's happened with high school racing.
13:23
It's, I think it's true, but it's also, remember that, I mean, having been in the bicycle industry, in whatever capacity I was, uh, and this was always my response is like, um, people were,
13:36
uh, r- when, when wheel sizes started, you know, diverging into, you know, from 26 to 29, and then 29 plus, and then 27 and a half, and is it 27 and a half or is it 680 B, and is it all this stuff, and then people would, would bitch on the interwebs because that's what those are for apparently.
13:52
Uh, they said... Oh, yeah. Again, would, finish- Should we take a break? No, no, finish your comment. Uh, they would, uh, you know, they'd bitch about, "Oh, there's so many wheel sizes.
14:02
There's so many s- so many standards now. You know, everything's so stupid." You know, do you know why those standards exist? Because you asked for them. Because there's a need. That's why 29s come around.
14:11
It, it's not a need, it's a want. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Great. No, so it's like, so somebody says, "Hey, I want this," and any company worth its salt listens to that.
14:20
Whether or not they do something about it is a whole other story.
14:22
But you know, if somebody is expressing, "I want this thing," and it does not exist, and you can make that and then make money, and continue doing what you do, then, then that's a thing that they do. Uh, so it's like,
14:35
so that's why those things exist, but it's, you know, e-bikes are the same way.
14:38
People wanted them, and so they're here [laughs] You know, like- And, and, and, and, and- That's, that's, that's capitalism, which, you know, you can argue... in my, in my, in my
14:46
horrible way of thinking, it's just gives me something else to bitch about because- It-... it, it was carbon fiber and- I, yeah... and it's, yeah.
14:52
And it's- And there's, and there's, there's a lot of things to bitch about, and I get it, and it's fun. And I, you know, whatever. If you wanna bitch about them, I think that's great. But, uh, but it's also like,
15:01
um, you know, again, it's, it's sort of, it's drawn another, like it's putting up another fence and saying, "This is us and that's them," and you know, and, and- Yeah. And I, well, I think what it's...
15:11
Well, hold on a second. We need to do this. [laughs] Well, so those guys have top of the hill, they ring the bell. We're not screwing around with that. We're just gonna go with the sound.
15:19
[bell rings] Ooh, that was a double. That was so nice. I almost think we timed that. Ah. Anyway, uh, so- So- I don't know. When it comes to, when it comes, so I own, uh, I bought a, uh, a Luna Cycles,
15:34
uh, Bafang, you know, kit for, that turned my bottom bracket into a motor.
15:40
And, uh, because, uh, because I, when we started the store, we got rid of one of our cars, and so we have one car between the two of us, which means [laughs] which means Shannon drives that, um, because she does a lot more moving around than I do.
15:54
And I, and I go down to the shop and come home, but I live on a hill. And like- You live on a big hill. It, it's, it's- It's not long, but it's steep... well, it's, it's a, it's a pain in the ass. Yeah.
16:02
And, and you know, it, it's the, it's not any kind of super difficult thing, but if I get to the store and I realize I forgot my keys or, you know, something like that, then it's like, "Oh, crap."
16:12
And yes, it, but that's the thing. You get into the, there's the argument is like, you know, so am I suddenly, you know, not tough enough to be in, in the club because I did that?
16:24
You know, because I want a little, my, want my life to be a little easier. I'm like, I don't know. I mean, the nice thing is I, I use it as a write-off, uh, for the business because [laughs] because it's my company car.
16:35
[laughs] Never even, never even thought about that. I know. Yeah. That's the other part. But so a- and you know, and the funny thing is, uh,
16:44
a- you know, if we're, it's, I have this, I have complicated relationship with it.
16:47
Like, because forever, like I was really proud of riding, uh, back and forth to QB- I'm a little nervous you said a relationship with an e-bike. [laughs] I'm kinda worried about this. Maybe. Does Shannon know?
16:58
[laughs] Shannon, Shannon knows. Um, but I was proud of myself for riding to, you know, my commute in the cities used to be 16 miles one way to work, and I did not ride it every day. I was not Dave Gray.
17:09
I was not, you know, Trevor Clayton. I was, I was not those people that, that you know, I don't think I ever saw driving a car. Uh, so, so I was somewhere in between there, but that was a source of pride for me.
17:23
Like, I liked riding into work, and it felt good. It felt healthy and all this stuff, and it feels good now, but, but I sort of define myself as this bike rider guy, you know?
17:33
And so now it's like, now it's like, well, does this change who I am? And, and honestly, at the end of the day, I come back to my original answer, which is I don't give a fuck. Like [laughs] like I just- Yeah...
17:43
I just, you don't have to care. You don't have to care what I ride. No. 'Cause it doesn't affect you.
17:48
I, I don't have to care 'cause m- the only thing that's a downside is like how other people might perceive me, which is bullshit. Like who cares about that? So- Except for I do. I just want everybody to like me.
17:57
Please like me. Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Um, my bigger thing is, is that there's a, there's a bit of an etiquette problem, um, in the busier trails.
18:04
You probably don't, we don't see, well, no, I take that back Believe it or not, we've had more trouble down here on the Trout Run Trail than we've had in Rochester [laughs] Well, the, the e-bikes have taken off here a lot because, you know, the one shop in town is, is selling the crap out of them and renting them.
18:18
And renting the crap. Yeah, they rent a lot of them, yeah. Um, and also, so we have one of the most gorgeous 12 mile- Sections... of trail there is.
18:25
It's a paved trail that goes around in a circle around Decorah, but it goes along the river, then it kinda goes through town, and then suddenly you go under the highway and you're in the country.
18:37
And you go past the trout hatchery, and you go past where the eagle lives, and y- then you go up two pretty sizeable hills, right? Right. Right. And so there are a lot of people
18:49
who, you know, will ride out to the trout hatchery 'cause that's the flat part and then ride back.
18:53
But, you know, oh, we wanna ride the whole thing, and there's a lot of people there, "Well, you should ride all the way up." And it's like, well, maybe they can't. Maybe they won't. Maybe they don't want to.
19:02
And a bit of the problem is, is the campground is on the hilliest part. So it's, it's at the bottom of it, but- At the bottom of it, yeah... you can't...
19:10
If you go out and just jump right straight on the trail- Yeah, you're going straight up... you're climbing alls you, you're climbing for about four miles. Yeah. I mean, there's, it's up and down.
19:19
It, it goes d- up and down the valleys. But in essence, you're climbing for four miles. And, you know, mom and dad in a- Yeah... camper with their kids on their- They're not going to do that... it's not good. Yeah. No.
19:27
It's, it's... But, you know, we've lived down here for two years now, and we ride it every time we're down here and, and then some 'cause Sue really likes riding it.
19:35
And, um- You had the guy that kind of came up behind you and was- Oh, yeah. So I don't know if I told this story or not... giving you the- That's, so for this broadcast, I'll tell it.
19:42
[laughs] But first of all, Sue really likes riding the trail. She doesn't like ri- riding off roads. Is, is Sue competitive? Um. A little? A little. Yeah. It was, it was... So what happened was, is we were...
19:54
So when you ride a tandem, climbing is not fun, and neither one of us are strong. We're not- I mean, uh, here's the thing. Like, you know, you talk about e-bikes, and you have a tandem. I mean,
20:03
there's all kinds of nerdy bikes, bro. [laughs] Oh, yeah, there is. All right, go ahead. Uh, no, other than my tandem and one fat bike, I don't have a geared bike. So when I go ride with people, it's- They have no gears?
20:13
No, they just spin. I just have to have somebody push me. All right. It's horrible. Anyway, so there you are, riding your tandem.
20:17
So, so, so we're riding our tandem, and we're, we're going up, um, we're going counterclockwise. Yeah. So that doesn't mean anything to anybody other than me. It's, it's a cool way to go. Yeah. I th- I think so.
20:25
I, I that's the only way I wanna ride it. Some people say it's the hard way [laughs] and like- But when we're, when we're almost to what, what I would call the, the last climb of the day- Oh, yeah, yeah...
20:31
you know, and you're, you're- Yeah... up- Up to that little, uh- Yeah... there's a little bench at the top.
20:35
Oh, I took my bike, I took my hockey buddies up there drinking one night, and they fricking lost their mind just climbing up there. Oh. We, we literally drank about two cases of beer just to get them back home.
20:44
[laughs] They didn't realize they were going downhill the rest of the way, but that was beside the point. So Sue and I are just about to the top, and this dude rides up next to us, and he goes, "Take off the brake.
20:54
Take off the brake." He's kind of giving us shit, right? And he's on a fucking e- 'Cause- He, he's on an e-bike.
20:58
'Cause you're riding- And he's a, he's close to my age, but he's a tall, thin, very good- Don't you hate-... fit guy... don't you hate tall people? And so just wait, this gets worse.
21:05
Um, so he, uh, so he passes us, and then we crest, and then we're riding along, and it g- it serpentines. Well, we caught him on the serpentines going down, and we're on a tandem, so we're fast going downhill. Oh, yeah.
21:17
And we're totally ignoring the guy. We're just, like, literally carrying on a conversation. I mean- I mean, you're ignoring him verbally. [laughs] Yes. But, but- But in your mind. [laughs] But no, no, no.
21:26
But, uh, no, that, well, Sue, um, Sue might have a different story. Okay. But I was, I could give a shit less about him. Yeah, sure. But I'm, uh- 'Cause you're telling the story for the seventh time...
21:33
but my, [laughs] but my brakes are squealing, so we're like, "Ee," all the way behind him, right? And we followed him all the way down the switchbacks. Yeah, yeah. And we get in the flat spot, and I go, you know...
21:43
I said to him, um, I know I told this story a million times, but I said, "You know, we're a little bit faster on the, on the downhill, and on, on the flats we're fast, but we're even faster downhill," you know, just kind of- Yeah, yeah...
21:53
apologizing for what we did. Yeah. And he just called me fatty, and then Sue's like- Oh... and Sue, and I'm like, "Well, he's not wrong," but at the same time it's- Well, but- Sue loses-... you used to be fatter...
22:02
so Sue, [laughs] yeah, Sue lost her shit. And, and- Well, that makes sense... and then we're, and then we're riding toward the trout hatchery. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
22:10
And we get to the trout, so we, we lose him, and we get to the trout hatchery, and then there's so many people looking for the eagles and stuff we, they come to a stop, right? Yeah.
22:18
We let everybody through, and all of a sudden he's fucking drafting us. [laughs] Now, there's a dick f- dr- he's a dick to start with, and he's drafting us on a, on an e-bike. And Sue goes, "Pedal faster."
22:29
She goes, she goes, "He's right behind us. He's drafting." And I go, "Well, we got two more gears." She goes, "Well, then fucking shift." [laughs] And away we went, and we, and we, and we literally did lose the guy.
22:37
And but the thing was, is for the next month and a half, it didn't matter what time of day we went out there, we saw him. Like, it was like- Oh, man... like, he doesn't, I don't know if he d- so here's my problem.
22:48
Are you, if you're trying to get in shape, if you're trying to just exercise- Yeah... does it make sense to use an e-bike three times a day? Um, well, any moving is better than no moving, so there's that.
22:57
But there's also like, here's what, uh, here's what that story brings up for me, is like, [laughs] you know, that guy would be probably an asshole on a, on a regular bike. He, he'd be an asshole on a single speed.
23:08
He'd be an asshole in a car. You know what I mean? Like, there's just, you know, the, the bike you're on, uh, doesn't make you who you are. True. You know? It, it may, it may, uh, it may shine a light on who you are.
23:22
[laughs] But I don't, I, you know, it's like, you know, the, it's the same thing with, you know, triathletes. Oh, fucking triathletes, you know, or whatever. And, you know, they- They are assholes.
23:31
[laughs] There's a lot of people who go into triathlons because they are type A people, and they are really super tightly wound because they wanna have a better time, and they wanna always be better, and you and I are not that.
23:42
No. [laughs] And so we look at that, and we're like, "That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen." In my hockey career, when I have a kid that can't get along with anybody, I say, "You should maybe take up bicycling."
23:50
[laughs] Well, think about it.
23:53
Think about all the idiots that we know, and, like, the people that are in the bike industry or the people that, that are real bike nerds, they're the [laughs] people for whom team sports served nothing. Exactly. Yeah.
24:05
You know? [laughs] Like, if, so either they can't... Uh, the, one of the saddest things I ever saw in my life was I was at a Quality Bicycle Products-...
24:13
retreat or my early years of working there, probably 2001 or something like that.
24:19
And, uh, we went to this, you know, like a resort up, you know, it was either, you know, like Cable or someplace like that or up on the North Shore in Minnesota, and [laughs]
24:28
somebody got out a football, and they're throwing it around. [laughs] And there's nothing worse than watching bike people toss a football around. Yeah. It's so painful because none...
24:40
I'm not good at it, and so like, but I'm also not gonna engage in it. [laughs] But none of us can throw a football. Maybe one or two, but I don't know what they're doing here. You know, it's sort of like, "Oh, you know."
24:50
That's, that's like have you ever seen Deak's throw a softball? [laughs] I don't know, I don't know- I cannot say that I have... I don't know of, of a girl I've ever seen that throws worse than he does. Oh.
24:58
And that's including my wife, Sue, who has like one of the wimpiest arms in the world. I, uh, I wouldn't go there 'cause, uh, w- I actually... Well, anyway. Well, they- that's, you're in Iowa. There's- Yeah...
25:07
there's a really lot of good ballplayers. We, uh, remember, remember when, uh, dodgeball happened? Oh, yes. It was for like 10 minutes. Did, did you guys have a team at QBP?
25:16
We, we had a, we had a team at QBP, and one of the funny things is like, uh, we sucked because of this very reason, 'cause none of us could throw.
25:24
Uh, like and we're just- we're like, [laughs] "Oh, my God, we just got, we got murdered." Except, uh, somebody's daughter,
25:32
uh, somebody that worked there, her daughter played, and she was a softball player, and she was a total badass.
25:38
Like [laughs] she would just, you know, do the around, like the pitch, like the around the, the windmill pitch or however- Oh, really?... it was. And she would just destroy people. It was like...
25:46
[imitates bat hitting body] Like they would just liquefy humans. [laughs] And I was like, "Well, they, we got one person that can play," and the rest of us were just like, "Noot-doo-doo, fix game, noot-doo-doo."
25:55
God, I can't imagine. Yeah, we're dumb. It was, of course it was in uptown Minneapolis. Anyways. I remember you guys playing. Worst, worst case scenario- I, I, we, we played once. That's it?
26:03
It was with, uh [laughs] I thought you guys joined a league. We did. Oh, you only played in one game? [laughs] I think we only played once. I don't know. I might be wrong. But it was, it was traumatic for everybody.
26:13
I like, I, I enjoy dodgeball even though we got murdered. Uh, you know, I was, I'm, you know... Some people really- You're, you're into pain, getting hit by a piece of rubber- Well-... or what?
26:23
Some people, you know, there are a lot of people who hated gym class in school. [smacks lip] Um, and, uh, you know, there's lots of reasons for that. I mean, it can be one of those... It can be really traumatic.
26:34
It can be, you know, like not getting picked on the team, or just an asshole gym teacher, or just letting the wild kids go or whatever it is. [smacks lip] I always kind of enjoyed it. I, I...
26:45
Or maybe that says I'm an asshole, but I mean... and I had a modicum of, uh, of athletic ability. But i- just running mostly. [laughs] Really? That d- you, you don't seem like a runner.
26:57
No, no, not like running, not like going out for a run. I've done that like three times in my life. [laughs] It did not work out. Uh- Has recently invented the wheel. Oh, man, I am, I am awkward at running.
27:10
I mean, I'm six feet, six inches tall, about 235 pounds, uh, just not designed to run. Ah. I was gonna say, where did your Kool-Aid go?
27:22
All the- Oh, I just, I, for some reason I took it out of the, I took it out of the little air tight- It's not your cup, I don't think. No. I'm still drinking. Okay, good. Just checking.
27:30
Anyway, how are you, how are we doing? We got time. Are we, are we winning? We, we, yeah, we're winning. We only do one more story we wanna talk about. Sure.
27:35
Uh- Um, I really- You know, it's cool that RAGBRAI didn't happen this year. Oh, yeah, you know, and, uh, and, and, and actually Saturday I'm gonna interview, um, a guy that I ride with in Rochester who, um, uh, did...
27:48
His dad probably did every RAGBRAI up until a few years ago. Wow. And Jeremy's probably been doing them since he was- I'll leave that to him then... 19. Yeah, no, no, no, but I wanna hear your, your thoughts on it too.
27:57
Well, you know, there was the whole thing last year with the big split, and so they started a different RAGBRAI. Right.
28:03
And this was gonna be the year that it happened, and I'm glad it, I'm glad that RAGBRAI didn't happen for the reason that there didn't have to be two of them. 'Cause, you know, you, you can make...
28:12
Uh, say what you want about RAGBRAI. I mean, I, I... It was, I went the first time when I was 16. It was my family's vacation. I've probably done it a dozen times, and I've done it all the ways. I've done it as a family.
28:22
I've done it, uh, you know, kind of mostly by myself. I've done it with, m- you know, with a bunch of ne'er-do-wells, uh- Oh... at the back. Yeah, uh, Kim West actually posted a picture of us. Did he?
28:32
Yeah, o- on Dragbrai. Oh. Oh, that's, that's not us. That's you. I would have known- You were in there, weren't you? No, I didn't. No, I never did Dragbrai.
28:39
Oh, no, 'cause you guys were on Evil then, so you weren't with the Dragbrai bunch, were you? No, I never... I, I didn't... I knew you, but I didn't know...
28:45
I, like, I didn't know Kim West, and I didn't know the, um, that whole crew. We had- I mean, I'd... There- we... It's like th- they're, you know, since I, I, my first bike shop job was in Iowa City, um,
28:56
you know, there were people, there were a lot of people that we know in common, but- Right. Yeah...
29:01
but I was, you know- Well, the funny thing- And that was when I was trying to be a road racer [laughs] And actually the funny thing was is that picture was on, um, it was on fatbike.com- Oh...
29:09
and it, Greg Smith posted it, and I didn't know he was on it with us. Greg Smith? Yeah. He was- [laughs] I know it. I, I was like, he actually had, he didn't have to wear a wig.
29:18
He actually had the hair that went with it, but- Oh... but it was, it was really funny 'cause he posted it, I think he posted it... Wait, he's posting it tomorrow I think. We, we've all known each other forever.
29:27
That's just it. You know, you, there's, um, uh... And Kim West now has become,
29:32
uh, w- I'll have to do a podcast with him because- [laughs] And you have to come because he is, he is, like, one of the coolest guys in the world. He has- I, I... Oh, go ahead. No, he's... So I met him.
29:42
He was, uh, I don't know if he was done with his racing career or not. I mean, that whole bunch was faster than shit- Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah... on a road bike. For sure.
29:49
And, um, so- That was, uh, that's some of the Iowa City guys. Yeah, yeah. You know, they were- Uh- I tried to ride with Mongo and- Mongo, yeah, and, uh, Bowling Ball- Yeah... and, and those guys. Yeah. I was down there.
29:57
I was down there then. I was working in the shop then. And, and, and all those guys were faster than shit- I was just a-... but they always did-... I was just a dumb kid...
30:02
they always did, they always did what they called Dragbrai. So there was one day that they all dressed in drag, and they did a, they did a contest, and whoever won it by the crowd, they gave a sash away.
30:11
We'll, uh, we'll have him on. I love it. Because, because he, he now is, like-... a Greyhound dog, um, rescue guy Oh, God, that, he's- Yeah, yeah, I mean, he, uh, he, I think, I think he's out there right now.
30:22
But- Shannon's whole family is Greyhound nuts Oh, really? Oh, yeah Yeah, so, yeah, so I'll go bring Shannon down the n- when he calls- Oh, she loves Greyhound... I'm calling it, yeah.
30:28
She wants us to get a Greyhound, and I'm just, um- Actually, w- do you have the net at your house so we can do it at your house instead? No. Fuck. All right. Wait, did I just swear on this?
30:36
[laughs] So anyhoo- But s- but I mean, so Kim West is a guy that, if I remember correctly, he played keyboard for a couple years for the Greg Allman Band, and he's a lawyer, and he's like- He's, he's a pretty fascinating individual.
30:50
He is. He's amazing. And, you know, he's- And he's, he's a smart guy on the, on the, um, on the interwebs too. He, um, he- One of the few people that I- He's had, he's had one or two heart surgeries. Yeah.
31:01
I don't remember what they were. And, and he's, um, um, because of that, he's really stayed at home and stayed tight. Uh, and, and so because he... So he does, every day he does a little thing on Facebook. Oh, okay.
31:11
Uh, which, which he... And again, you're right, he's smart, so he figured out how to screw Facebook and everybody else.
31:17
So he was playing songs and then, you know, like listen to an album, and then he would talk, and the album was playing in the background. Yeah. And then he was getting kicked off by Facebook.
31:24
Oh, for- He goes, "This is a college." And now they can't touch him. Oh. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. I, uh- We'll have, we'll have him on- Yeah...
31:31
because we have to talk to him because he, i- he's a s- he, an incredibly interesting guy. I met him, I met him once at, uh, at Jingle Cross. Does this mean you're gonna be my sidekick now?
31:39
I gotta do this shit with you every week? I'll be... I'll [laughs] You're funny, Ronald. [laughs] Sure, I'll do it. Um, the, uh...
31:47
No, I met, I met Kim, uh, and he may not remember this, but I was at, went to Jingle Cross for the first time because I'd never been down there.
31:53
I'd heard about it, you know, obviously, uh, 'cause it's such a huge thing, Iowa City cross race thing. And this was, uh, right before it became, like, the big sanctioned UCI event that it became, is? I don't know.
32:06
Anyway, so- I think it still is, yeah. Anyway, and, uh, I went down there, uh, ostensibly for Surly, but, you know, not really. [laughs] And I, uh, I just, I hung out with the 30 Cent Bike Squad folk. Jesus.
32:18
Yeah, me and, me and them. And, uh, and then, uh, [laughs]
32:24
I was down there, like, I was gonna write a blog about it, but i- it ended up being two fuzzy, uh, cellphone shots of me, like, far away from the crowd, [laughs] like, just wandering around- [laughs]...
32:36
not knowing where I was for some reason. I don't know. It was- I, I never-... it was a great story. I don't know... I've got guys from Rochester that like, and always were, up until it became a UCI thing, and they...
32:44
I think more so because they changed the date, didn't they? Yeah, they, they, I mean, Jingle Cross suggests that it should be somewhere near- Yeah... you know.
32:50
But it was- Then they changed it to, [laughs] like, September or August. Wasn't there, like, but wasn't it, like, Thanksgiving before that? Uh, maybe so. Or right around there, like Thanksgiving weekend or something?
32:58
I don't remember. I don't remember either. I know it's, it's like this- This is like- This is like Cyclecross, who the hell knows? [laughs] This is the old guy, uh, the old-guy podcast.
33:05
"Remember when that thing happened?" And yeah. "No. N- I, I don't know." And- "You know that guy? I think we both know him."
33:09
See, the nice thing is because we're old enough, we can say whatever the fuck we want and nobody- Yeah, nobody cares... there, yeah, there's, there's n- you know, don't fact-check us- Yeah...
33:15
because that'll never happen. E-bikes, don't care. Nope. [laughs] I do. I still hate them. But it's like- I, I, I think because e-bikes come around, I hate- Is it because, like, it's-... I hate carbon less...
33:24
is it because, like, it's making it too easy for people, and you did it the hard way? Is that... I mean, here's the thing. Here's the other analogy. Well, I... Okay, but- Here's the other analogy I thought of.
33:34
Um, so I like to fly-fish. Uh- Okay... and there's a lot of that around here. Um- Yeah... trout, trout fishing's- Yeah... a big deal. And, and it's fun.
33:43
One of the reasons trout, uh, that fly-fishing is fun is because it's hard. It's, I think it's harder than your average, you know, spincast-s- style fishing. Like, it's, like, there's a lot of minute, you know, details.
33:58
There's a lot of, you know, uh... It's hard. You know, you're out there, and you're trying to back cast, not get in, into a tree, and, you know, tiny, fishing in these tiny little streams.
34:08
It's not like, you know, going out with, you know, 300 beers in a jon boat and just, you know, drowning worms for catfish.
34:16
Uh, so it's hard, but that also means that there is a, a percentage of the population who fly-fishes who hates the other kind of fishing because it's easier. I- You know what I mean? No, I, I do.
34:29
So is that what, is that what's going on here? Do you hate, uh- I-... e-bikes because it's easier? Um- Ooh... to a point. I think that's, I think that hits it on the head a little bit. I think, um, I...
34:40
It's a bicycle, and the reason I ride a bicycle... Not, I don't, I don't do anything to get fit. If I wanted to get fit- [laughs]... I'd quit drinking beer and eating stupid food. Yeah.
34:48
Uh, but, but I, I just, I really like riding a bicycle. Mm-hmm. And, and I think what drew me to single speed riding and racing was the fact that, um, it, you can't get any simpler than that.
34:59
It was filled- You can't r-... it was filled with assholes. [laughs] Single speed wasn't. Single speed is all fun guys. But the right kind of assholes. Yeah.
35:05
But n- No, I, when I say assholes- Oh, assholes as in good assholes, yeah... yeah, yeah. But more, more so was, it was like, if you wanna go faster, pedal faster. You wanna go slower, pedal slower. Yeah, yeah.
35:12
If you can't climb that hill, get fucking stronger. And I still, to a point, have that mentality. But that's like- And so e-bikes take that away... but it's, but it's so judgy. Like, who cares? It is.
35:22
But somebody else does. Well, it, and then, and, and, and... Oh, oh shit, that was, that was too far away. You okay? Yeah, I'm all right. Sorry. [laughs] Um- I- I, I- Yeah... so, so I... So part of me is,
35:36
part of me hates them because of its technology, and I don't think bicycles should be... There should be an improvement in technology, but it shouldn't be... Everybody should be able to fix their bicycle at home.
35:46
Yeah, it's true. Uh- And, and, and I, and most people can't, most people- But there's, I don't know. There's lots of shoulds, man. I don't know. I don't think we're gonna solve it tonight. You don't th- yeah, for real.
35:57
[laughs] 'Cause we, we should... We're five minutes over. Oh, shit. I know it. Greg's gonna hate us. You could cut out- I don't care... my story about whatever. I'm not cutting out shit.
36:05
[laughs] I'm just sending this to him and saying, "Fuck you. Listen. If you don't like it." This is as raw as it is. That, I, I think that's actually the, the, the advantage of a podcast.
36:11
You say it's gonna be 35, 30 minutes long- Well, it's not like somebody's gonna... Yeah, there's no end... but there's, yeah, there's not, like, there's, it's not like we have to go to a commercial break or anything.
36:19
[laughs] It's not like the next show has to start. [laughs] Okay. How, oh, oh, we forgot- I listened to a 30-minute podcast, and it was 35 minutes That can happen Fucking sons of bitches Well, look at, look at...
36:29
Uh, and, and not that it... That's who I'm trying to be, but look at Joe Rogan's go- going anywhere from an hour and five minutes to two and a half, three hours- Yeah...
36:37
depending on, depending on how interesting the guy is. So- I don't, I don't listen to that guy. I did. I do. Um- It seems like he's kind of a dick. But I don't know.
36:45
He's- I mean, that's my impression of it- Well, he's-... from not ever listening [laughs] to it. Yeah, I, I, I, pretty much w- pretty much anybody, it's less about...
36:53
Like, for this one, for example, it's less about the guy that's running it, so Joe Rogan, myself, whatever. Yeah. It's more about the people that he's talking to. Yeah, but I'm not interesting. Oh, no.
37:03
You had absolutely nothing to fucking say the whole time you've been here. [laughs] God. No, I think- I think seriously- It-...
37:08
so me being, me, uh, having the impression that I'm an interest- interesting, and me being interesting are two very different things. You've already used bigger words than I would ever hope to use- Well.....
37:15
so that's fine. But don't forget, we did it, and I think this was brought up as a couple podcasts ago with Greg and those guys, but I'm sorry I keep bringing back them.
37:23
Eventually, I won't even talk about those fuckers anymore. That's all right. They're- Um, but-... they're good, they're good people... but we did a podcast with you and I and Spinner- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah...
37:31
and Pat Mirich. And Pat Mirich is drunk cyclist, and we literally did three hours. And, and it was three hours after we had gone out and gotten totally annihilated the night before. I broke three ribs on that ride.
37:44
Oh, yeah. And we came down here, and we, we did a podcast down here. It was three hours and it was, it was really fun and it was awesome, and because we were like basically doing...
37:51
We were reminiscing about- Yes, it happened... all the stuff that we did, and none of it turned out. [laughs] So we had like three hours of fucking dead air almost. It was like- Oh... God damn it.
38:01
So it didn't, it didn't turn out, so, um, I'm hoping to reincarnate it a bit with you and, and bring in Pat Mirich because he's got great stories from- He does... uh, um- Can I, can I tell one more story? Yeah.
38:12
No, that reminded me- Yeah... of something. Okay. Uh, we were at a dirt demo one year, and, uh, and Lael Wilcox was there. Yes. And she's awesome. She's just- She is. She's fantastic.
38:24
So she had, uh, she had recently at that point, uh, won, uh, RAM, the big race across America. Amazing. Didn't she win that thing? Like, she- Yeah... she handed everybody their, their ass. And so I was [laughs]...
38:38
I had this idea I was gonna do this thing for Surly. I was gonna do interviews. It was like podcasts before there were podcasts. Like, I'm, I guess I'm s- what I'm saying is I'm a revolutionary. Uh- Absolutely...
38:49
any- no. Anyway, so I was just gonna record an interview, and we [laughs] we never talked about her winning or being fast or whatever, and the reason was I didn't know. I didn't know that she...
39:03
I, she was just a person that I had met that day, and I didn't know, like, how awesome a rider w- she was. I knew how awesome a human she was, and then later on I found that out. I was like, like, the next day.
39:13
And I was like, "Oh, [laughs] I guess I'm kind of an asshole." No, but, but it was very cool 'cause we were just yakking about regular stuff. But there, but that is, that is- And bike stuff...
39:22
that is something about, about cyclists. Yeah. I mean, they're... If you're a famous cyclist, you're [laughs] granted overall you're not a real famous person. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
39:30
But at the same time, when you're in the industry and you know that person, you're famous, they don't think they're famous. Yeah. They're just kinda like... There's, there's a few.
39:38
The, the ones that are arrogant- Yeah... if they, if they washed dishes, they'd be arrogant about washing dishes, right? They're just- There was... Who was the guy that, uh... There was a guy that won, uh, um,
39:49
world championships in mountain biking, and it was, uh... Fuck, I can't remember his name. This was probably mid, mid 2000s. And, uh, it was weird. Again, it was at Dirt Demo.
40:01
I guess I do most of my dirt dumb shit at Dirt Demo. Um, and there's this, you know... Uh, this was back when Surly had a, had two 10 by 10 pop-up tents, like, in a row. So we had 10 feet, and we had, like, three bikes.
40:15
And I used to come out there and drink with you guys. Yeah. Well, who didn't? Yeah. And I mean, I mean, of course. You... We loved having you.
40:21
Anyway, it is a long story, but the, the whole group of specialized guys were going out, and this is, you know, this is me being, uh, young and kind of an asshole.
40:28
And they, they go out, and there's one guy wearing the world champ stripes. And I was like, "Nice world champ stripes, dick." Well, it was the world champion. [laughs] And, uh- It wasn't Tinker. No, no, no.
40:38
'Cause Tinker- It was-... Tinker's, no, Tinker's always out there too... no, this guy was, like, he was Belgian or some shit.
40:43
Because the next day, uh, a buddy of mine, uh, Nick Sandy, was talking to somebody who ended up being his girlfriend, and, and he told her, her about it, and they were laughing about it.
40:52
So the next day he came up and he handed me a card of his, like, like, a photo thing that was signed. And he said, "Just, uh, in case you're wondering, I actually the, am the world champion of-" [laughs] I was like...
41:04
And we had a good laugh about it 'cause he's a great- Yeah... and funny guy, but, and, but it was 'cause I was an asshole that I met him. [laughs] I don't know what the lesson is. Well, no, that's... Uh, he's, uh...
41:14
It's like Troy. But later on, here's my vindications. Later on, he got busted for doping. Oh, well, see, then you knew. You, you know, you just- Yeah... you kind of pegged him right up front. Yeah, I, I...
41:23
Well, it's all sturdy. All right. I think we're over our limit. All right. Um, wait a minute. I can do this one time. Thanks. One second. One second. Thanks for having me on, Ron.
41:31
[crickets chirping] [laughs] I can't believe you didn't use that either. I, uh, I didn't... I don't know what I would use. Just in the middle of a story. Yeah, just, just start, "Oh, fuck your story."
41:39
Actually, there's actual crickets out here. There is. This is, like, like, seriously- We're in the backyard... we're in the backyard, and it's awesome back here. This is why we bought this place. Uh- Yeah...
41:47
other than we're too close to too many assholes. Tsavo lives up the hill. True. Captain's close by. Um, I'm afraid Spinner might end up actually wind up [laughs] living in the neighborhood, too, sometime. Ooh.
41:57
So, um- That could happen. Yeah. So anyway, thanks again for coming. Um- Thanks... uh, we'll maybe do this again. You and I should probably do... We got some people we should probably call and talk to. I'm in.
42:06
I'm- I'll come down. I'm in. All right. Whatever. Thanks again for listening, everybody. Talk to you later. Boop.
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