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Full Spectrum Cycling
Chewey’s Salon Chair #42 – Jerry’s Celebration of Life, More Horse Trail Issues, Telemark Trek Trails
Oct 28, 2024
Chewey’s Salon Chair #42 – Jerry’s Celebration of Life, More Horse Trail Issues, Telemark Trek Trails
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00:00
42:04
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Transcript
0:00
[rock music] [laughs] It's so quiet in here, Dave.
0:21
It is. It is quiet. I can't believe it. It's so weird. [glasses clinking] Hey, did you notice my, the booze rack? [laughs] I did see that. [laughs] I'm becoming an adult. [rock music] Is that wine? Yeah.
0:33
Oh, it's whiskey. You got everything in there. No, it... We got, we got it all. There's mead. Oh, there's some Surly Darkness. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I gotta get- Jameson. Oh, boy. I gotta get Dr... I gotta get Dr.
0:42
Kelly over here to drink that. Yeah. Here we go. Chewy's Lawn Chair number... Nobody gives a fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Uh- Let's call it Everyone 69... yeah. There we go. Everyone 69. Everyone knows.
0:53
Today, tonight, this afternoon, whatever the fuck it is, um, it's just been a night- October 25th. Oh, yeah. But it's just been a night. We've, uh, recovered from, uh, Jerry's celebration up in Hayward. Yep.
1:05
Um, uh, we've, uh, been meeting and dealing with, uh, an issue here in town I think we talked about before, didn't we? Oh, yeah. We did.
1:15
We, we've talked about it quite a bit, but, uh, first we're gonna talk about Jerry's celebration of life. It was, uh, for Jerry Wright up in Hayward. It was, uh, it was fantastic. That's all we'd put it. Yeah.
1:24
It was, uh- It was good... the only sad part about it is it rained, so it kinda screwed up the ride to his- Oh... to the, the steakhouse where the party was at or the celebration was at. Um- Yeah...
1:35
otherwise it was- [horn honks] Uh-oh. Uh-oh. A local, yeah, a local bike shop put on a ride at the New Moon. They rode from New Moon to the- Yeah... to the ceremony, and there was quite a few people that actually went.
1:46
Um, did Dave go on that? Yeah, I think Dave did. Dave and, and- Greg... yep, they both rode. Yeah. They rode. Yeah.
1:53
I thought about it, but it was th- just about the time we were gonna leave, it really started to pour, so that kinda ended that. Yeah. So. Yeah.
1:58
Yeah, and our connection to Jerry, I didn't realize that he was an Iowa native. He was actually born by Fort Dodge or he grew, ri- grew up by Fort Dodge somewhere- Somewhere Fort Dodge... over there. Yeah, yeah.
2:06
And then, yeah, came to Luther. Um, he was roommates with Deke, um- Yep, and that's our connection...
2:11
at Luther College, and then he went to Madison for a while, got his law degree, and then he had a law practice in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Yep.
2:18
And then, I don't know how he got up to Hayward or what, how that- I don't, I don't, I don't either. I don't understand. I, I don't think... I have to ask Deke maybe, because I don't really know.
2:25
It was just all of a sudden he was moving up there one day. Okay. And, uh, I, I, I really don't know why or how, you know, just because maybe the area. I think maybe Lori's from Spooner.
2:34
Oh, I thought she was from- Or something... I thought sh- I thought she was in Iowa also, but I could be wrong. Okay. I thought somebody said she was from up there, so.
2:40
But it wa- it was, it wa- it was, it was really fun for me, I, I mean, as fun as a thing like that can be, to listen to his two lawyer buddies talk about him. Yeah.
2:51
It's a, it's a realm that I don't think any of us ever... I mean, we knew he was a lawyer, and, and if we asked him the legal questions, he became a lawyer. Yeah.
3:00
But at the same time, we didn't know what he meant to that community up there more than anything else. Right.
3:05
Yeah, he was, yeah, the, to us, the trail guys, trail maintenance, um, I raced with him every year, um, at the Fat Bike Birkie for all 12 or 13, whatever there is.
3:14
He didn't race us last year because he was doing, um, a search and rescue class. So he was part of the mountain bike patrol. Yep. Um, and when he crashed, he actually had a defibrillator on him. Right. Right.
3:25
So, like he had all this safety gear. Well, and he was, they were, they were picking up the course after the race. After the 100. Um- Pronghorn 100, yeah. Yeah. So, um, he... Let's see. So he was ski patrol,
3:38
um, mountain bike patrol, um, he was on the search and rescue for finding people that were lost. Yep. He helped develop the, it's not GPS. I keep forgetting what they call it. GIS. That's it, yeah.
3:50
Ge- geographical information system. Yeah. So yeah, the maps.
3:52
So he's, he's been mapping everything up there, so, um, he r- he was the head of the mountain bike club up there, or the, or excuse me, the high school team up there. I mean- Yeah... the guy- He was like a coach...
4:02
the guy did everything. And then, and then the two lawyers started talking about him, and all the stuff he does with, um, uh, the, like, I don't want to call it the drug abuse pro- the, um- Yeah...
4:12
the council up there and that kind- Mm-hmm... of stuff. I mean, he's involved in every- the guy must never be home. [laughs] I don't think he is.
4:17
I, I mean, I think Lori needs to have as much credit as anybody else for keeping his ass straight. Yeah. You know? Yep.
4:23
Um, I did have to [laughs], I did have to giggle though every- body that got up and talked, the last thing they mentioned was how much Jerry liked his beer.
4:31
[laughs] He loved his beer, and they had two or th- I think they had three kegs of, uh, Angry Minnow River Pig. And you know how much it cost? Uh-uh. $1,200. For the beer? For three kegs.
4:42
[laughs] I'm like, "Holy cr- thank God we didn't drink them all." Yeah. Well, we drank a lot of them. Well, we did. We kicked off two of them, for sure. Yeah. And then what? We went to...
4:50
Oh, we went up to, uh, the sawmill after. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So yeah. It was a good weekend. It was a good ceremony.
4:57
We got to ride all of the new Trek trails, I guess, I think they're Trek trails, um, at the old Telemark. Yeah. Are they still calling it? I think they're still calling it the Telemark. I think so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
5:07
I'm, uh, I don't know, um, Trek built a big building up there. There's a bike shop, a rental spot. There was, um- Mm-hmm... there was a... We played with the history of the Birkie binder stuff up there.
5:16
That was kinda fun. That map was really cool. Yeah. Um, uh, the place was really nice, and then out from there you can kinda look up and see... It's, it's basically a chalet with- Yeah... you know.
5:25
Um, it was, uh, uh, the trails were fantastic, uh, and busy as all get out. That was, uh- There was a lot of riders up there... 'cause that was Friday early afternoon we were up there, and that place was packed. Yep.
5:36
Yeah, we probably started riding at, like, 3:00? Yeah, something, yeah. I think we were- And we rode for three hours, three and a half hours. I mean, it was getting dark by the time we got back to the place. Yeah.
5:45
Well, I'm a little slow, but that was, uh, that was fun. That was a great time, and those trails were fantastic. Mm-hmm. I, like I said, I haven't ridden up there...
5:52
I mean, I dicked around a little bit two years ago when I was up there for, um, for the Fat Birkie. Yeah. But I really haven't gone up and rode in the summer, um- Especially around there.
6:01
I mean, I've rode up, up the area, but not, not there, let's say. Yeah. The probably last time I rode was probably in the summertime, uh, the Swami 100, um, in 2013 or something like that. Otherwise, it's...
6:12
I rode up there every winter. Yeah. But that's the f- that's the first time I've seen those trails. So- Yeah, they were, they were... I mean, what do you think we did? Half of them? Mm. Maybe more? I don't know.
6:22
Maybe all of the Telemark stuff. I mean, we didn't- Yeah... do the double O or, like, I'm skipping around- Well, the, the, the old stuff we used to ride, yes. Yeah. That, we didn't do any of that, right. Yeah. Yeah.
6:29
So no, it was, the riding was fantastic. Um, we did see the spot where Jerry crashed. Yep. There's a little memorial there to him, which is kinda cool. That's cool. Yeah.
6:37
Um, and, and I s- can see where that area could make a fork fail. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was- Well, remember the trail leading down to that, there was a bunch of jumps. Yes.
6:47
So, like, and not jumping, but like, drop-offs. Mm-hmm. Like, you would have to drop or you'd have to- Yeah... like, really ride around them.
6:53
And then again, into a bunch of like, baby head rocks, and you know, just kind of buried in there. So- And I heard, I think, I think...
6:58
Did you get the whole conversation, were you there when Deke was talking to Martin about, um, how the fork failed? Um, yeah. Um- It wasn't, it wasn't like we thought. We...
7:09
It didn't like, snap at the head tube like we all thought. Right. It was down on the, the tine, whatever you wanna call it that holds the axle. The fork or the- Yeah, the ax- the axle... the, the finger or whatever.
7:18
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was down there that it actually broke. Mm-hmm. So that's, uh, rather interesting actually, I thought. Yeah. So- No, so yeah, they did it well. There was a lot of people there.
7:27
I mean, like you said, he's definitely big in the community, and there's a lot of people that came to- There's a-... grieve and- And there's a ton of shoes to fill. With him being gone- Yes...
7:34
there is a ton of shoes to fill up there. Yes. And I, and I, and I would, I will put money on that somebody will step up and do it. Mm-hmm.
7:39
I mean, it, it's a, it's a very good mountain bike community up there, and I think they'll, they'll, uh, they'll take good care of the stuff that Jerry did. Yeah, I think so. It's...
7:49
But yeah, they need a groomer, they need a trail guy- Oh, yeah. God, he grooms too. Yeah... they need a maintenance guy, they need...
7:53
I'm sure they have more than a few mountain bike patrols, but um, yeah, like, Jerry knew where all the trails were. I'm sure there's a few guys that do, but um- [coughs]...
8:03
because when any- anybody was around and they wanted to know h- where's the best way to go, what trail does what, Jerry was able to explain it more than any- anybody else. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
8:10
Um, they'll need that too, but- Yeah. That's gonna be rough. I mean, it's gonna be tough for them. Mm-hmm. But, uh, anyway, it was, it was a very good weekend.
8:18
Uh, we had fun, and we got to s- meet up with people we haven't seen for quite a while, because they all don't come down with Jerry anymore. So that was awesome to hang out with that group of, of people for a while.
8:27
Yeah. Um, yeah. It was, uh, it was well worthwhile. I mean, we, we did miss SingleSpeed USA for it. Um, I would do that 100 times over, too. Yeah. I... And that was a bummer. Yeah.
8:38
I mean, when we first got the date of this thing, um, we... That was the first thing I thought of, I'm like, "Oh man, that's SingleSpeed USA." [laughs] Yeah.
8:45
And I really wanted to ride, uh, Salida, Salida, whatever it is. Yeah. And that, they had a really good turnout, so. They had... And they, and it looks like Matt, and I don't know who helped him, he didn't...
8:54
He d- he said, he said he only had one other person help him. I talked to Matt a little bit after it was over with. Oh, okay. Um, turnout was great, everybody had a great time.
9:00
I, I haven't talked to anybody that had any, any complaints. It's in- That's rare. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, it's gonna be held in, um- Ch- Chico? Chino? Ch- uh, Chino, California next year. Mm-hmm. Um, I...
9:15
Dan and Robin are putting it on. Mm-hmm. I don't know if, I don't know if you met those guys at all. Danimal? Yeah. Yeah. So- He was out there when we went that long weekend, uh, Tempe. Oh, that's right.
9:25
He was there, yeah. I forgot about that. Yes. Yeah. So that'll be another good one. I don't remember what they set for a date. I, um, they, I don't think they have. They probably won't.
9:33
I, I- Usually you don't get a date until spring or summer. Yeah. I know they're... I, uh, um, I... Somebody else had said that there was, it was, I don't know if it was gonna be late spring or f- or like- Mm...
9:42
summer, fall, but something like that. Yeah. So, so we'll look for that. We'll, we'll get some stuff out about that when it gets, when it gets to be time. So- Mm-hmm... yeah. So a lot of good stuff that weekend.
9:51
Um, then we get- Yeah. Well, and our Airbnb didn't burn down. [laughs] Yes. That's true. That was- Dave was smoking in there. That- I'm like, "Okay, go ahead." [laughs] That was really a nice Airbnb.
9:59
It was probably too nice for eight guys to be staying in, but it was- It worked... stoked out. Yeah. Yeah. We, I mean, we weren't there most of the time, so. But yeah, it was a really nice, big place.
10:08
Just on the outside of town. Gunner rode everywhere from there. Yeah. I mean, he was just riding all weekend, so. Yeah. Yeah.
10:14
So anyway, then we get back here, and we went and jumped right back into our mess on the trails. Yeah. Um, we had, um, another c- another park board meeting. Yep. Um, the horse people were there. I got there late.
10:29
I got, I had to corral my dog, so I got there a little bit late, but it was, it was kind of funny, 'cause I'd been out working on trails, and I got done and I went, uh, I went to Tea Box for lunch, and one of the horse people walks in and sits down.
10:42
[laughs] Kevin. I like Kevin. I get a kick out of the guy. I do too. Yeah. And he sits down and he goes, "Why do I remember you?" And he goes, "Oh." [laughs] "Now I remember."
10:50
[laughs] And I go, and I go, "Yeah, I was just out working on the trails. I didn't see any horse shit, so you're fine." And he... I go, "Are you going to the meeting tonight?" He goes, "Uh, why?" [laughs] Yeah.
10:58
And I go, "I don't know. I was just told, 'Hey, come to the meeting tonight,' so I'm going." He goes, "Well, I guess I'll be there."
11:02
So I walk in the door, and there's two people in the horse group sitting over, and there are empty chairs with them, and there's... There was only a few of us, too, but it was funny.
11:09
But yeah, walk in, he's just waving at me. [laughs] Yeah. Well, and when I walked in, he, he looked at me and he's laughing, and he's like, "Oh, Chewie's gonna be pissed. I told him I wasn't coming."
11:17
[laughs] And then here, here he was. I, I still say that give us a couple beers, we'll have a really good conversation between the two of us. Yeah. I mean, there's no doubt about it.
11:24
I mean, he's, he kinda gets it, but man. I, yeah, I think that, um, the story that's being told from their side is not the truth, I think, is what I've kinda put together.
11:37
So, um, at city council the other night, um, we had a fire call. I got back, um, we're washing trucks and stuff, and then the, the horse person walks out. And I'm like...
11:48
And then, um, one of the Park and Rec people, who's also on the fire department's like, "Hey, how'd it go?" I'm like, "How did what go?" I'm like, "What happened in there?"
11:56
And he's like, "Well, if you wanted to know, you should've got- gone to the meeting." I'm like, "I was just fighting a fire for fucking six hours." Yeah. You know? I'm pissed. Don't talk to me like that.
12:04
[laughs] So, but I, I went back, you can watch them on YouTube. And what they talked about was they said, um,
12:12
"I hear that there's user groups that are being excluded from the parks, and I wonder if Park and Rec should- is overstepping their authority."
12:20
So, you know, what hap- And so everybody knows we didn't say no horses in the park. It has been said by Park and Rec board members, but that's not a DHPT thing, which is our trail club. Right.
12:32
We said, "We'll give you five out of the eight miles that are- Their, their-... wide single track... their original- Their original-... trails. Yes... plus our Pines trails- Right. Very good...
12:40
because they're on the top of the ridge, and they're not- Yeah... you can easily get around people if there's a horse coming the other way, that sort of thing. Sure. Yeah.
12:46
Um, so luckily another city council person shut it down. Um, said, "Yeah, they're elected positions. We can't take their, their rights away or whatever." So, um, it's interesting.
12:57
It's at a minute 34 on YouTube of the- Oh, I'll have to go watch it... Monday- Yeah... meeting. Yeah. It was last Monday. Yeah. Yeah. Um, um, I, I agree. I think there's a...
13:07
And I've talked to, I've talked to several other horse people who have no interest in riding up there. Yeah. Um, they, they don't care one way or another how it goes. Yeah.
13:20
So they're like, "I don't know what the big deal is." I mean, they, they're the ones that keep telling me, "Well, there's plenty of other places to ride." Yeah. So it's- And, and there is. Yeah.
13:26
There's a lot of private land. Yeah. There's no private mountain bike parks. But that's the other thing that sh- she's pushing, um, is is saying, she's calling us mountain bikers. Yes.
13:34
Mountain bikers versus horses, and we're like, "We're the core of human-powered trails. We've been here around for 20 years." The last trails that we built aren't even necessarily bike trails.
13:44
I mean, the, the Carlson Park project- Yeah... we mowed all that. That's mostly a ski trail right now. Yep. Um- And people like going out there and walking, and that's great. It's a- Mm-hmm...
13:52
it's a, it's a nice park and a nice place for that wide open strolling. It's great. Mm-hmm. It's not, it's not a fun place to ride a bicycle. I mean, not fun, it's, it's a boring place to ride a bicycle. Right. Not yet.
14:01
It will be. I mean, we're- Oh, yeah. Yeah... gonna put mountain bike trails in there- Yeah... but we secured the park. And that's the other thing too is, like, the sustainability. We've worked at Park and Rec. We do, um,
14:10
buckthorn blitz to remove invasive species. We work with the city with that.
14:14
Um, you know, we are building to IMBA standards now when we look at our inclines and stuff like that, which, you know, take it or leave it, at least we're doing official certified stuff so we can point- Right...
14:25
to somebody who doesn't know anything about trails at all, we can point to those and say, "This is the reason we built it this way." We, you know, did things to handle watershed. Um,
14:35
you know, we- the city contracted us for trails on both sides of Phelps. One, you know, from the switchback- Yep... up to the top, and that was probably 2008, and that was a long, a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah.
14:45
And then the Boy Scout project that they kind of abandoned that we, you know, fixed. Yep. Um, there's... [sighs] I don't know.
14:53
It just- [laughs] The money that we've raised and given to Park and Rec over the last 20 years, I mean, that went straight into their memorial fund budget. I mean, we used it, but we raised the money for that. Right.
15:02
Well- Yeah... and that's what, that... I mean, we, we... I know there's some hikers that have mentioned the racing, which we haven't really run a race in four years probably. It's been a while. Yeah. I mean, the racing,
15:13
uh, unfortunately, how you can r- the easiest way to raise money for your trails is to put on a race. Right. Because that you've gotta... It, it's a one-day thing. Mm-hmm. Um, you get a bunch of people out there.
15:25
They kick in money. They... You know, we, we've wrote checks for 2, $3,000. Yeah. You know? And, and it's, um, the people that, that race feel like they've got something put into it because they paid money- [laughs]...
15:35
and they know that that, that we're donating the money back to the Park Department. Yep. So they all feel like they've helped donate it to the, to the...
15:41
Not just through the race, but they've also helped donate to the trails. Mm-hmm. Um, they...
15:47
The thing that bothers me most, so I've been to two, I've been to two Park board meetings, um, and a little bit of conversation elsewhere too, but the thing that bothers me the most is that they leave as soon as our discussion about the trail- horses on the trails ends.
16:02
They leave the meeting. Yeah. [laughs] They don't stick around to hear the stuff you and I were just talking about. Mm-hmm. Because the Park... I, I, I know the last meeting, those two left,
16:13
the two horse- the horseback people left because they were getting frustrated with how much the Park board was talking about how much DHT, DHTP has been doing. Yep.
16:25
You know, they were just, like, giving a report and how much money we've, we just donated again and, and, and, um, projects that they've approved and that we've finished. You know, they, they were going on and on and on.
16:35
Those guys got up and left before that came around. They, they don't, so they don't understand that part of the reason that w- they, they feel like we have...
16:43
We're, we're, we, we have, we're, we have more clout than we should have. Part of the reason is because we're the ones that are doing all the work. Right.
16:50
We're the ones that raise the money and give them the money, and the Park Department just looks at us as, as a, a finger of them. Yeah. They, they don't have to go to, they don't have to go mow. They don't have to go
17:00
mark out trails. They don't have to go clean up after a, after a storm. I mean, I, m- uh- Yeah, they called you when they had a tree down, right? Yeah. So. Yeah. Well, it was on the horse trail actually.
17:09
And it, and you know what? I got to thinking about that. I've cut three trails down, uh, trees down on the horse trail now. Mm. They... I did two up in The Pines. Okay.
17:16
On, on the out- Sky of The Pines on the- Oh, yeah... on the old trail that goes around. Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. And then, and then, and then the one that was on, on, um, Old Rainies where they can go up. I mean, that...
17:25
We'd actually [laughs] the best part was is we were going up there with the DR mower. [laughs] We couldn't get by the tree, so we said, "Well, let's cut it down right now." So we cut the tree down.
17:33
Then Gary got the call. They go, "Hey, we're kind of busy." It was one of the Park Department guys. He goes, "We're kind of busy. Would you co- would you mind going out and cutting this tree down?"
17:40
[laughs] And Gary goes- [laughs]... "Done. We already did it." [laughs] We already got it. Yeah. Yeah.
17:43
So- And for everybody listening, so another thing that we do is we also pay salaries or, I don't know salary, but we pay for, uh, three maintenance people, and Chewy's one of them.
17:53
And then, um, GT is the other, uh, Gary's the other one, and then the high school kid. Yeah, Garrett. Uh, Garrett. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, uh- And that comes out of our fundraising money- Yeah...
18:02
that we pay you guys to do that. Yeah. So. Right. Yeah, you're right. And I, and I don't do as much as those guys because I, I go back and forth. I, um...
18:10
Well, okay, so let's, let's just for example on- I don't think it was that I went up and worked with the captain. By the way, you guys owe me.
18:17
[laughs] I- whatever day that was, uh, um, we went up and cut some pallets up, so I don't charge for that. Yeah. I just charged for when we fixed the bridge.
18:25
Well, we had to go fix the bridge, and our assumption is, or maybe, maybe we're wrong, but I can't imagine how we could be, there's a pile of horse shit, and all of a sudden there's busted boards on the bridge. Yeah.
18:34
And, and you could ride a bike across that, and that's never gonna break a board.
18:38
So we, I'm just assuming that a wh- and we'd, and we'd know for a fact that the day before there was horses riding and trailered from that area. Yeah.
18:46
So we're just, I'm, it's an assumption, and we could be wrong, but we had to go out and fix those boards. So I charged for the repairing those boards.
18:53
I think I charged them for three hours, and then I spent the rest of the day hacking wood and stuff. So mine goes back and forth. I think Gary and, and Garrett are, like, full-time.
19:00
They, anything they do on the trails they charge. Yeah. Which is good. I mean, that's- And that's fi- I, I mean, that's fine. Yeah.
19:05
I mean, we have our volunteer work days and, um, I don't know if they come to those, but, you know- I-... they don't have to, and you don't have to either, so- No.
19:12
No, I do, but that's why I go back and forth because I, I told Garrett that, you know, I'd rather he... He, he was showing up, and then, and then he doesn't do anything.
19:20
On the other trail [laughs] I'm like, "Garrett, just go work on the trails instead," because our st- what we need to do, there's 14 people are gonna do that. It's just the three of us, so let's get our part done instead.
19:30
So we bailed off and then did that. But again, you know, there's, we went out there and there's horse crap on the trail. Mm-hmm. And you can't get around it because of where it was at. Yeah.
19:38
And the bridge was busted, so we fixed that, and it's, and it's just a const- I mean, it's...
19:44
And I, and I purposely went out and rode a couple other spots just to see, 'cause it had rained that morning, and to see if anybody had been out, but nobody had been out. Even, nobody's even out biking, so, um- Yeah...
19:53
it was, um, yeah, but it, it, the, the, the argument that they keep throwing out is that we,
20:01
s- for whatever reason, I don't know how to put it, they think that we have coerced the Park Department into letting us be in charge, which really isn't the truth.
20:11
Everything we build, everything we do, we have to go through them and approve it. I mean- Right... it, and it's been done differently as it's gone on. Yeah. You know, before when it was, who was the first?
20:21
Was it- Rick Edwards was the director... Rick Edwards. Yep. And Rick was, Rick would b- be like, [laughs] I think when Rick was getting toward the end, he's like, "Yeah, I know what you guys are doing. Just go do it."
20:29
Yeah. You know, one of those things, because he trusted us to do, make the trails so that they're usable, and that they're safe, and that they, there's no erosion.
20:38
I mean, you gotta remember, we, along with IMBA, we were, we've been, we've been building trails as long as IMBA has, so it wasn't like jump into it and start, and IMBA says to do it this way.
20:49
We started building the trails, IMBA was building trails the same way. They have developed and started using more tools. We're still using more hand tools to build them. Mm-hmm.
20:56
But the, but the principle behind how they build the trail is exactly the same as what we do.
21:00
They start with a wider project and, and let it wear down into a single track, where we figured out how to make it into a single track right away with the same results.
21:07
With, you know, with a, with a, with a nice trail that drains and doesn't have puddles, and, and there's no erosion, and it's not, it's not, water's not running down it and direct getting into, eroding another part of the, the hillside or whatever.
21:18
Yeah. So we've got it. We've, we do a good job. It's not exactly the same as IMBA would do it, um, but it's, but it, but the end result is exactly how they would do it. Yeah.
21:27
And we have so many users, so many user groups, so many people out there that are using ours that, I mean, we're human-powered trails.
21:33
We're not ATVs, we're not horses, we're not, I don't know what else there is, but, um, that's another big part of the whole thing. It's, it's a city park. Right.
21:41
And we can't find any examples in Iowa where, um, horses are allowed in city parks.
21:46
They're allowed in state parks, and the examples that they gave was, uh, Volga, which we used to ride and we don't anymore because of the horses. Right. And Yellow River, same story. Exactly, yeah.
21:56
And those are both state parks.
21:57
And, and both of those park rangers, well, I don't know about Volga so much, somebody else talked to Volga, but, um, we had a friend that did, was working, um, down in, uh, Yellow River, and he did talk to the, the park ranger down there- Yeah...
22:10
and he has zero time for the horse people. Yeah. Um, and yeah, you know what? The more you talk to those guys, it's less about the horse and more about the horse people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know?
22:18
That's, that's a lot of it. I mean, well, yeah, they wouldn't be out there without the people [laughs]- Yeah... bringing them out. Yeah.
22:22
And- 'Cause some of that stuff, I look at that and go, that horse wouldn't ride there unless somebody made him go there. Yeah. He's not going that way. Viv, what are you doing? What is she...?
22:30
She's taking over the coach. Oh, the laptop. [laughs] Now that she took it over. Yeah. Um, but they, so in Volga they have, and I, I may have my numbers backwards, but there's 48 miles of trails in Volga.
22:41
The horse is only allowed on 20. Oh. So when, so when they said we can ride anywhere we want in Volga, that's, or in Yellow River- That's not true either... that's not true. Volga's the same way.
22:50
Um, my kid was just in Forestville State Park up in Minnesota, up in, uh, by Spring Valley, and, um, um, I don't know if you've ever been up there, but I have, um- Um, we rode through on the Almanzo. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
23:02
Great, yeah. So a good friend of mine, um, guy I used to race mountain bikes with, um, Sam Blackburn, actually lives there. He's in his grandpa's old house at the end of, on, on the north end of the park.
23:12
And- Oh, cool... and so- He's in Forestville. Mm-hmm. Oh. So, like, where it comes to a T after you go by the little village- Yep... he, there, there's a house straight ahead. That's his, that's where he lives. Oh, cool.
23:20
Yeah. And he actually rides horses. Um, and he mountain bikes still. Okay. Um, he, he was into horses, got out of it, got into mountain biking, ballooning, now he's back into horses.
23:30
I think his wife has, their family own a bike shop, but I think she's always been into horses. Okay. So, um, but anyway, so there's, they've got a combination.
23:39
The b- the bigger part is, is that when Casey was walking around down there and stuff, he saw the no horse signs down there also. Mm-hmm. So it's like Forestville... But here's the funny part.
23:49
Forestville State Park, we went and talked to the park managers years ago, Sam and I. Um, and the guy goes, yeah, he goes, "I wonder when somebody's gonna come and talk to me." He goes, "Nobody comes riding here.
23:58
They just ride the gravel through." He goes, "You know, we built this place and m- it's the horses, and they're our bread and butter."
24:03
And he goes, "I don't mind you guys, but if they don't want you here, we're not gonna let you be here." Mm-hmm. And we didn't argue with him. I mean, it was like, mm, that kind of makes sense.
24:11
We'll find some- we will find someplace else to go ride our bicycles. Yeah. You know, where this group of people are going, "No- We want that. Go find someplace else. Yeah. No, we want that.
24:21
And they didn't build it, they didn't put any money into it, they just want to be able to go ride it. And they're not gonna take care of it when it, when they wreck it. Right. And that's the big, that's the big thing.
24:30
So of the park, there's eight miles in the park. Five of the miles are in like prairie loop, they're wider, um, they're old farm roads, um, something that a horse can't really damage. Right. Right.
24:42
Um, and the three miles that we said no is single track, and it's, you know, um, 12 to 18 inches wide. It's off camber. It's shored up in a lot of places. I mean, you wouldn't be able to do...
24:57
You wouldn't be able to pass a horse if a horse was coming towards you. No. It, it's pretty tight if you're on a bike.
25:02
Well, and there's cert- yeah, there's certain spots there that if you were walking and you ran into a horse, there's really not a easy place to get o- I mean, it's, it's the trail, and then there's a steep embankment up and a steep embankment down on the other side.
25:15
Yeah. So there's not really any place to jump off and get out of the way if you needed to. Right. Um, and I, and I think, I don't know, b- uh, I think I, I... The horse people, excuse me, the hikers and runners, um,
25:30
I, you know, they, they [laughs] when we're working on the trails, they come by and say thank you, and then they keep going.
25:34
So we really don't, haven't really talked to them and seen w- you know, if anybody's run into anybody.
25:38
The few that are in our, the ones that are in our club, a couple have run into horse people and had a little bit of trouble. Not horrible, but- Yeah... yeah. Yeah. And then there's... Oh, sorry, I gotta play this.
25:50
Like, just got a new pager. I lost my pager the other night in that fire, so. [laughs] Oh, did you really? [laughs] I gotta- Oh, God... this new one I have to listen to the message or it'll keep beeping. Oh, okay.
25:59
And we had two fires today. Oh, did you really? Yeah. One was, uh, a tree got hit by lightning last night up in Phelps. No kidding.
26:06
And it was hollowed out, and I had to go take a chainsaw, cut a hole, [laughs] and put a hose in there. [laughs] And the sad thing was when I got the hose in there, there was a nest in there. Oh, no.
26:15
There was some birds that I don't know if they got electrocuted or cooked. I don't know. Oh. Oh, that's, that's sad. It's- Yeah. Um, what were we just saying? Oh, the- Uh. Um. Um, oh, the thing I was gonna say.
26:26
Oh, so and the only reason they're ever up there in the first place was when the land was donated by Dr. Van Peenen years ago, 1975, I think. That sounds right.
26:34
He put in there something about, um, he wanted it to be, to be used for recreation, which is primitive camping, um, hiking, horse riding. He didn't put in mountain bikes 'cause they didn't exist yet. Right. Right.
26:46
And, or ATVs for that matter. Yeah. And something that we recently found out, um, in the State of Iowa, deed restrictions on gifts like that expire after 21 years unless they're renewed.
26:57
So if they're, if they think there's a legal argument that they can be up there because it was donated that way, that has expired. So it would've expired in, uh, 1996. Well, and wasn't there,
27:12
whether it was them or somebody from our group that went up there and, and talked to the Van Peenen family and they said, "You know what? You've had it for 20-some years. We don't really care what you do anymore." Yeah.
27:22
So I mean, they've, they've donated it. They've washed their hands of it. You know, granted, it's named after them, but they, they don't really- Well, he's passed away, the guy that actually- Right. Yeah.
27:30
It, it was, must be talking to his kids, I guess. Okay. Um, and, and yeah, and, and I know they've scoured and found the paperwork and, and we've finally got... Well, Deke has finally decided he ha- he's had enough.
27:44
And this is Deke's third or fourth go-around with this business. Yeah. I mean, I even remember when he built those trails up there around Van Peenen, um, he knew this was, they were horse trails.
27:56
He knew that we didn't wanna interrupt the horses- Mm-hmm... or their, their riding. Yeah. So we made the trails somewhere else on, in the same park, but not where the horse trails were.
28:06
Granted, we first got started, we had to jump on the horses, horse trails here and there to get to the trails 'cause they were somewhat fragmented, but we've eventually got them all hooked together now where you don't really have to ride the va- the prairie at all anymore.
28:18
And, uh, but [coughs] he, uh, I mean, at that time, he was like basically looking out for the horse people. Yeah. Like, we were like, "We're not... You're here. We s- we're new.
28:30
We're going to, we want to ride up here, but we will build our own trails. We'll take care of our own trails, and we'll stay out of your way." Yeah.
28:37
And, and that's the way it's always been done by us as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. I mean, every trail we've ever built is with... You know what? I'll take that back.
28:46
We have gotten s- the horse people have been gone for so long that it's not even a factor when we talk about it anymore. Right. They're just gone. I mean, they're- You never see them up there. No. Uh-uh.
28:55
Once in a while, maybe two or three times a year. I don't... You know how many years have I been coming down here? And I'm out there at all the weird times of day.
29:01
I've seen hikers, I've seen runners, I've seen mountain bikers, I've seen kids going out there to party. Yeah. I have only seen a horse once. I've seen a horse trailer. I've never seen a horse.
29:12
I've never seen them actually out on the trail. I've, I know they're out there. Yeah. But there's enough up there that I haven't seen them. Right. Yeah. So- There's 120 acres I think.
29:19
So it's not like, it's not like we're pissed off because they're, they're everywhere and they're in our way. Right.
29:25
It, it's more that we did not, because, because they've been nonexistent or non, a non-factor in building trails, we haven't built the trails for the horses to ride on. Yeah.
29:35
You know, we, and we don't, and we don't build them for horses not to ride on. Right. We build the trails for the people that are using the trails, the runners, the hikers, the mountain bikers. Yeah.
29:43
And they're, those trails are built f- with their mi- Like, so like the other example I had, I spent...
29:50
There was a tree went down, I don't remember if it got hit by lightning or what it was, and it went down right in one of the trails on ol- New Randy's. Okay. And I spent four hours taking the tree out.
29:59
[laughs] I was had with me was a shovel, so I spent a whole shitload of time filling in holes and, and patching it up as best I could 'cause we were, it was middle of summer and we're busy as heck. And
30:09
a few days later, horses went up there and rode that and destroyed four hours of work. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, somebody said they went back and patched it.
30:17
When I went and looked at it, I think perch had already been out there and fixed it. Yeah. But, um- Um, I mean, it was... And it was... And from my understanding was it was unusable- Mm-hmm...
30:25
by any party after the horses got done riding through there. Yeah. And so it's, it's... If, if we make the trails for them, that's fine, but at the same time, how are you gonna build so much of our...
30:37
And maybe people that don't, haven't been down here, so much of our trail system is on the side of bluffs, on the side of, on the side of- It's all off camber. Yeah. A lot of it. Yeah. Not all of it, but a lot of it.
30:45
No, but a lot of it is. Yeah. So everything we build is off camber and we just sort of shore it up. Well, you're... Now you're looking at, I think the national standard is eight foot- Yeah...
30:54
for, for multi-use including horses. Yep. There's no way we're digging into a hillside eight feet. No. No. I mean, that's [laughs] that'd be, that'd be insane.
31:01
Well- You couldn't do it for one thing 'cause it's all rock, but, um- Well, yeah. And I'm wondering, like what is rocky road? And it might be eight feet in some spots, but it's probably four feet in others. Yeah.
31:08
But rocky road I think was actually a field road to get to the top of the- It was... so yeah. It was. But it's still, I mean, as the hillside's kind of eroded, it's not that big anymore. Oh, you're right. Yeah.
31:16
And then Horsey, which is the old horse trail on the other side, um, that's not eight feet wide. No. That never has been. I- I'm not even sure that that was actually originally...
31:25
So they supposedly built that, which is possible because that was there when I started coming down here and riding. Um, but that trail is a little bit wider than, but it's not a field road going up I don't think.
31:39
It sh- I mean, it could, it could be, but i- if it is, it's, it's eroded to a three-foot wide path at best. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and rutted pretty bad too. Yeah. So- So I don't... Yeah, I don't know...
31:51
I'm, I'm, I'm pissed that we're doing this fight again. Well- And I think it really comes down to one person wants to use it, and there's the family name there and- Yep... she's pulling in all of her family and...
32:02
I don't know. Well, it- We, we looked at the Winneshiek Saddle Club, the two people that we talked to aren't even listed on there. So they- Really? [laughs] Yeah. They're not on the board.
32:11
I- They're not listed as members. I d- I don't know how the Winneshiek Saddle Club works, but [clears throat] they're- Well, I-...
32:17
they're kind of like invoking that name to make it sound like a bigger fight than- So they have a club. Yeah. I, they- Yeah... so they've got a, they've got an organization to back them. Yeah. I, I, I don't know.
32:25
I, I, I know it's caused bad conversations between myself and people in town here- Oh, yeah... you know, that are, that are friends. I didn't know they rode horses.
32:34
I ha- I mean, I've had, I've had two run-ins with people that are, I'd consider good friends and, and I didn't know they rode horses.
32:41
And, and I really didn't bring up the subject, somebody else brought it up to me, and they, they kind of bristled up about it and- Mm-hmm... and, um- Well, I think they've... They...
32:49
I, I don't understand why the five out of eight, I mean, that's what we're calling it now. Okay. Five out of eight miles. That's... We're saying it's five out of eight miles, and that's... We're good with that. Right.
32:59
But we've never said stay out of there. We do say stay off this trail. Right. We do that a lot. Yes.
33:05
Because it's not that you can't ride it, but that with the way we build trails, we can build it for all human user groups.
33:11
We can't build it to sustain 1,000-pound animal with soup cans as feet just, you know, on the off camber. Right. They're gonna slip around, and they're gonna make... They're gonna ruin the trail for everybody else.
33:21
They might hurt themselves. I mean, if a horse falls off of one of those, you know- Oh, God... ledges- I don't even wanna think about that. Yeah. Um, so it's weird we're doing this again.
33:31
But, uh, Perch and I are meeting with the... So that newspaper article? Yes. Uh, we talked to that- Uh-huh... reporter. Okay.
33:37
Um, and Perch set up a time Monday we're gonna meet with her, and then she's gonna put in a story for us. Oh, okay. So she's gonna learn history. She apologized for as one-sided as that sounded. And, um- Yeah.
33:47
I can, I can, um... Is that online also? The newspaper article? Yeah. Um, maybe. I guess we have a picture- I'll have to see... of it somewhere. Yeah, I'll send- I think it's a picture...
33:56
I, I'll get the picture of it, yeah, but I'll see if I can, if I can, they can, we can add it to the show notes then. Yeah. Um, yeah, 'cause it was one-sided.
34:01
It, it pissed me off, that's for sure, because it was like- It pissed a lot of people off... it sounded like she was there, but she did only list, listen to part- I think she was. She- I think she sits in the front.
34:12
I think that's her, and then she must have interviewed- Oh... Barb Kellogg, who is- So-... listed as, like the historian and the one who says that they built all the trails in this... 30 years ago, whatever. Yeah. Okay.
34:23
Yeah. Which- Yeah, I... It was, uh... Yeah, that, that article was bad. Um, um, you know, we had, we had this discussion. Now all that we did, the other thing we've had is we've had our, um, appreciation.
34:34
We had the chili cook-off. That was a blast. Yeah.
34:37
Uh, so yeah, a volunteer appreciation, kind of our end of the year, uh, celebration for all the trail work that we did and all the volunteers, and you made Wendy's chili. [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] No, yeah.
34:47
It was, it was, uh... Ah, I don't know if there's gonna be enough chili. Well, maybe I should make some. Well, I'm down here in the house and it's like, well, I got... I don't...
34:55
I think we did something Sat- the night before, so I didn't go out. Mm-hmm. Or I went out, so I didn't make any chili. [clears throat] And I got home and it's like, ah, I started looking at recipes, went to bed.
35:03
Got up the next morning, it's like, [tsks] you know, I wonder if I can make chili, still be ready by 11:00. So- Yeah... I walked down to the basement. I'm like, "Well, I don't even know if I have a pot."
35:10
So I walked down the basement. There's a pressure c- there's an Insta Pot. [laughs] I'm like, "Ah."
35:13
[laughs] And I go upstairs and I get on the computer, and it's like, hey, there's a, there's a recipe for Insta Pot for Wendy's chili, and it takes 20 minutes. So I'm like, "Ha, I'm gonna be a star."
35:23
[laughs] So I ran to Fareway and bought the stuff, and I was there. I ran into another person that was buying stuff for their chili too. [laughs] Yep. Yeah. So that was funny. But, but there was a lot of talk there.
35:33
And, uh- Mm... uh, the one person that brought up was asking questions, and she sa- asked, uh, what our, um, for our 501[c][3], what our mission statement, is that what they're called? Yeah, our mission statement.
35:47
And- I have it. Yeah. Let me see here. I can read it. Yeah. Maybe you keep talking, I'll find it. Okay.
35:50
Yeah, because the, the impressive thing was is when, when you, when you read it, you'll hear, um, she's like, "What are these people complaining about? Why are they calling it a mountain bike trail?"
35:58
Because nowhere in our mission statement do we say anything about mountain bikes. Uh, no. No, we don't. No. And she's just like, "That needs to be brought up." And in fact, I think she, she may have posted it someplace.
36:11
I don't remember. Yeah, I was supposed to put it on the website. Let's see. But it... Yeah.
36:18
But it was, it was interesting to have somebody that's neither a mountain biker nor a horse person, um- I don't even know she really w- she, I know she's, she hikes a lot, but I don't know if she hikes around there much.
36:29
I don't know. But, but she looked at it and goes, "Well, you guys don't even say anything about mountain biking. Why do they keep calling you a mountain bike club?
36:37
Because your, your mission statement states that you're not, that you're just a, a trail user club." And, uh, um, um, so it was a good point. I think, I think it needs to be brought up, um, next Wednesday.
36:50
So the 20- the 30th we actually have, the park board is actually having what they call a workshop or a work session, and they're actually gonna sit down and hammer through this.
36:58
They're gonna get the horse people there, the hikers, the runners, the mountain bikers, and they're gonna let people have their say. Um, there's some concern of,
37:07
and I thought they were talking about us, but they were actually talking about the horse people, about being respectful to the other groups, because they have seen
37:17
the disrespect that, that some of the horse people have thrown out there at their meetings. Yeah.
37:22
And, um, um, so they, so they were just worried about that, that they ac- I think they actually even threw something in there about the meeting ab- about that, but- Yeah... um. I can't find it. [laughs] Okay.
37:31
Not right now. That's all right. Yeah. No, it's okay. [laughs] I mean, it, it's good. I mean, it, I think it's gonna be, it's gonna be a good meeting. I don't...
37:37
They can't vote on anything, but I hope it gets to the point where they, everybody's, whether you like it or not, I hope they get to the point where they're going, "This is what we're gonna do- Yeah... and we're done."
37:46
And we can just move on from this, 'cause we've been dicking around with this all summer again. Yeah. And, um, like I said- Yeah... it's not the first time. It's- It's not...
37:53
in my, in my dealing it's the third time, and there might even have been more before I started coming down here and hanging- So it's-... out as much as I did...
38:00
second time for me, 'cause the first time was when we created DHBT in the first place, uh, in 2003. That was part of the reason. Oh, right. 'Cause there was a big horse group that was- Yep...
38:09
try- I don't know, trying to take over or whatever it was, but yeah. Um, but back, our mission statement thing is, like providing sustainable access to the parks in Decorah. It's, it's something like that.
38:19
Yeah, right, yeah. Um- So it's, it's, yeah, and it's got nothing to do with just a user group. It is all user groups. It's all- Yeah... user groups. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So. Yeah. Well, anyway, we'll see what happens.
38:28
It's coming up in a week, so it'll be- Yeah... uh, less than a week. It'll get, like five days, and you guys are all ready. Yeah.
38:34
I got my PowerPoint gun together, and hopefully we can use the, let us show the PowerPoint.
38:38
But I just wanna correct the mountain bike statement and say, you know, "We're not just a group of mountain bikers," and go through the whole thing and, like- Right... this is the projects that we've done.
38:46
This is the money that we've raised. This is, you know, who we worked with. This was approved by Park and Rec. You know, and just go down the list, down the list, down the list, down the list.
38:54
And we proposed the five of eight, you know, September sometime. So that was two meetings ago. Right.
39:00
And we were ready to go and vote on it at that Park and Rec meeting, and she said she w- wasn't done negotiating or whatever. She wasn't ready to accept that. Yeah. So. Well, I like the fact that- [laughs]...
39:10
she's not getting as private a meeting, since it's an open forum meeting with all the Park board members and- And City Council... and City, oh, City Council too.
39:17
So when they talked about it, um, in that City Council meeting, they brought up the 6:30 working session is als- so what we're calling it. Yep. Um, and they s- said, "Oh, we can attend that."
39:28
So maybe that'll be, even be recorded. I don't know. That'd be good to- Yeah. That'd be awesome. But- Well, I'm assuming that's why they wanna have it there, so they can record it.
39:36
Well, I guess they're, that's where they have all the Park and Rec meetings, and that's where, uh, Perch and I met with them the first time. Oh, it was? Okay. Yeah. Okay. And that'll, that'll be the, the...
39:43
I hope that just straightens everything out and be like, "We already proposed this. We s- the majority of the trails, it's over 50% of the trails up there." Yeah. We already said. There- You know?
39:52
But have, have they given up on the idea of Ice Cave? Or is this- Oh... it, you just said no, because Ice Cave was- IPTV or Ice Cave? Ice Cave. 'Cause, because think about that, they ro- Randy's goes up to Ice Cave.
40:04
Yeah. We shut that down in that conversation, 'cause frankly we're pissed and we're sick of, you know- Right. Yeah... here we go again. Yeah, yeah.
40:11
Take time off of work to go in and sit down and hash this out with somebody new that we've already done three times before, you know? And we said, "You know what?
40:18
Van, Van Peenen is the only one that has h- horse, um, horses allowed in the deed." So we said, you know, "We're not even gonna talk about Ice Cave." So we shut that down right away. Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
40:31
Well, it makes sense, 'cause I mean, that, and that's... And nowadays, since pandemic, that is almost too busy for mountain biking at times, 'cause there's so many people out there walking. Yeah.
40:40
I mean, fortunately, those trails are wide open. The corners are not blind. Um, so you can see or hear or know there's somebody down there walking, or they know that there's a bike coming up or whatever.
40:52
You know what I mean? You can see everybody else out there. Mm-hmm. So it's not, it's not horrible at all, but I mean, it gets busy up there. It does. And then you add a horse to it? Man, that'd be tough. Mm-hmm.
41:00
But- Well, I think their, part of their proposal might be shutting it down to other users. That's one thing that they brought up. Be like, "Can horses have Tuesdays and Thursdays and whatever?"
41:07
And be like, "No, because it's not just locals up there. It's everybody." Right. Yeah, that would, how would you like to be? [laughs] 'Cause working on trails, I've had people from Cedar Rapids
41:16
on a Tuesday afternoon- Oh, yeah... you know, come up there, and there was six, there was a g- a group of kids with counselors.
41:21
There was, there was probably 10 in that group, and then there was another group of, like, six, eight adults that just all came up and decided to go walking. So. Yeah. All right.
41:29
We better shut down, 'cause you gotta get going. I gotta go to- You got some stuff to do... wrestling thing. All right. Yeah. Well, here we go. Good luck next week. [laughs] Thanks. We have music?
41:39
[upbeat music] Oh, wait, we'll go this way. Just 'cause it's a horse thing, we're gonna do this one. [laughs] I like this one. Me too. They're both good. Yeah. I gotta play makeup some more.
41:53
Oh, actually Jenny's gonna do it next time. Mm-hmm. So all right, see you later. That was good. [laughs] There wasn't a whole lot of stuff
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