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Full Spectrum Cycling
Weekly Dose of Fat – Show #108 – Kevin Wren from Wren Sports Talks Bike Industry Tidbits and Suspension Forks
Sep 9, 2016
Weekly Dose of Fat – Show #108 – Kevin Wren from Wren Sports Talks Bike Industry Tidbits and Suspension Forks
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Transcript
0:00
Places, everybody. The Occasional Dose of Fat, show number 108 for Friday, September 9th, 2016. Fat Tire Questions and Ride.
0:23
[upbeat rock music] Welcome to the personnel abridged, post Labor Day, non-white wearing, Fat Boy, day of minor celebration edition of the Occasional Dose of Fat.
0:38
Allow myself to introduce [sniffs] myself and Sven Hammer. Hey, that myself over there is, uh, Mr. JK Livin. [laughs] Hello. Welcome, welcome to our gnome-free zone. Hello, world.
0:55
Yeah, it's, uh, a little bit toasty in the old River West studio today, but, uh, at least that, uh, bag of hot air Gomez is in his car- [laughs]... in the air conditioning. [laughs] Ba-dum-bum. Ba-da-ding-boom.
1:08
And may I deflect your attentions to the musical stylings of meester Crazy Chris Daisy? Hey, guys. [siren sounds] The Weekly Dose of Fat is brought to you by the tubeless-ready My Other Brother Where Art Thou rims.
1:25
Uh, translated that means that's My Other Brother Darryl rims, suckas. Learn more about bikes and Minneapolis street slang at surlybikes.com. And now, the King of Jupiter will tell us what's on the show this week. JK?
1:42
We start off the show with the event of the week. We welcome special guest Kevin Ren from Ren Sports. We check in with the Fatty Farm Field Report, brought to you by Richie Logic. And we'll take a call from our listener.
1:56
And in this evening's special segment, Uncle Gomez calls in from his gnome quest up north there, he. Yadder, hey. Up north there. Up to the Minneapolis. One time. One time.
2:11
And now, ladies and gentlemen- Now... it's time for the freaking event of the week. Da-da! That event of the week is called The Fat Bike Sunset Beach Cruise and Groovy Party.
2:27
And that's a Dave poppin' a wheelie, and way back there is Uncle Gnomez. In the flyer I'm looking at right here on the screen- Yeah... and it looks like we're sponsoring this mohompah.
2:39
[laughs] I figured somebody needed to know that we were actually looking at something. Yeah. [laughs] It's in the flyer. It'll be, it'll, it- We're trying, trying to paint the word picture- Yeah... just in case.
2:49
We're trying. We're doing the steps. That's actually a pretty good photo, Dave doing a wheelie. Wee. Hey, phone lines are lighting up like Liberace's Rolls Royce over here. [laughs] That's right, everybody.
3:03
Well, that's Paul Lynde, but whatever. [laughs] Paul, Paul Lynde is Liberace today. [laughs] Well, we'll just take a little break here while we wait for Chris to call in. I guess we could talk about something.
3:18
What were we gonna talk about? We were gonna talk about... Oh, I know what we could talk about. We're... [laughs] While- Idea... while we're waiting for Mr.
3:28
Chris Daisy to call in and talk about his freaking event of the week, the Fat Bike Sunset Beach Cruise, how about that, uh, did you see... Uh, you saw it today, right? That red TT-looking fat bike? Yes.
3:39
It was our, uh, it just was our photo for last week's, um, Weekly Dose of Fat, and I just thought, "Well, you know, I don't have a whole lot of photos sitting right now.
3:48
I'll just use this one that, that Rob had sent in a while back just sh- showing us the bike," and, and boy, I think that's the largest Facebook thing we've ever done. [laughs] It's like 42,000 people saw it.
4:02
There was something like 90 comments on it. Yeah, I- Some, some, some, "Yay," some- Some, "Huh?"... "Not so much." But, uh, you know, I guess it just shows- Initial, "Huh?" Right? "What?"
4:12
[laughs] I guess it just shows that stuff that's kind of, I- I wouldn't call it controversial, but, you know, it makes, it's, people have a strong opinion about, it makes for lots of comments and good Facebook interaction.
4:24
And thank you, Rob. By the way, folks, Rob is going to write a story about the what's and why fors and [laughs] why the hell did you do that for that bike. So, uh, hey. Hey, guess what?
4:37
I think we killed enough time, and we got Mr. Chris Daisy on the line. Da-da-da-da. Hey, hey. Hey, man. Hey, hey. Welcome to the radio program. What's happening this rainy evening?
4:50
Oh, it's raining like, uh- Or maybe not Friday. Who knows? [laughs] Yeah. Oh, I don't know. It's raining up here. That's what it's doing right now. Uh- Sweet... what's happening down there? What do you got going on?
5:00
You, you have your kids by your own damn self tonight, right? Uh, yeah, the, uh, wife is on a business trip, and Daddy's at home babysitting, and kids are bribed with an Xbox right now past their bedtime, so.
5:13
[laughs] Way to be a good dad. We'll see how this goes. [laughs] Way to be, way to be a good dad, dude. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm the cool dad. Right?
5:19
[laughs] Well, you know, the main reason we have you on the line tonight is to talk about your upcoming event that, uh, is the Fat Bike Sunset Beach Cruise and Par-tay, which is happening Saturday, September 24th.
5:32
Uh, just, you know- Yes... fill us in. What's, what's the skinny? When does it happen? Where should people meet? What are they gonna do? What kind of food? What kind of beer? What kind of, you know, bikinis?
5:40
These things. [laughs] So, uh, as usual, we'll meet, uh, behind Zion Cyclery in the back parking lot, um, and gather about 4:00, and, um, take a nice big long cruise through Illinois Beach State Park.
5:55
Uh, it usually includes some beach riding and some trail riding. Um, depending on weather, we'll kind of-... dictate how long we're out and out there having fun. And then we'll cruise back.
6:06
There's a new little establishment that opened down the street from us, uh, called The Hive that's got some, uh, pretty decent draft beers. A small place, but, uh, we can invade.
6:17
There's, uh, gambling machines for those inclined. [laughs] And, uh- Hey, you should get, uh, get, get, get old, get good old George from up there in Green Bay to come on down. Why, when we do our full- Yeah...
6:28
on beach rides, he's a, he's a fun man to hang around those machines with. Definitely. Maybe he'll win some money, and, um, that'll be worthwhile. And it's also part of a larger weekend we're having.
6:39
Um, Friday night we're kicking off a customer appreciation party at Zion Cyclery. Uh, that Saturday morning we've got a 50-mile road ride going on.
6:50
And then the Sunday after, uh, is, uh, on the 25th, the Beulah Boogie Bike Race, which also includes a fat bike category.
6:58
So our first ever mountain bike race in town here on the trail system we've been building the past few years. Right on. That's awesome, yeah. So come stay the weekend.
7:07
Uh, there's m- camping and hotels available, and come see all the little hidden gems we have here in Zion. Yeah, Illinois Beach State Park's a nice place to camp. Definitely awesome. Sure is.
7:18
This is kind of like in lieu of Fat Camp this year, sort of like, "Come on down there and, and do this." Yeah, you know, I kind of figured that, yeah, you know, it's, uh...
7:26
I'm trying to make this a, sort of an annual thing, and make Design Bike Festival something bigger and better every year. And so at some point we'll have a Fat Camp portion as well.
7:37
But, I mean, people are welcome to come down and camp all weekend for sure. Right on. Are you gonna be, uh, trying to- I just won't be there. [laughs] Are you gonna be doing- [laughs] I'm too busy.
7:46
Are you gonna be doing any playing of any musical instruments, or do you have any music action going on? We do on the, uh, Friday night. Um, our own, uh, D. Moss, AKA DJ Nice, will be spinning.
7:59
We're kind of billing this as the customer appreciation and dance party. And, uh, I've got, uh, our guy Dave brewing up some beer.
8:09
And, uh, we're gonna turn the shop into a, uh, little dance floor, so, you know, it's pretty crazy. Whoop. Whoop. Yeah. Oh, and 25% off all parts and accessories, including special orders, so bam. Bam. Wow.
8:23
[laughs] So, so how did the season go? Go ahead and get yourself some. We're kind of, school's started, so the season's kinda winding down for the, uh, the more traditional bike shop season.
8:32
Uh, you know, you do come into the fat bike season- Mm-hmm... coming up some, but how, how was the summer? Oh, we had a really good, um, June, July, August.
8:40
I mean, the couple of the spring months due to the weather were up and down, but, uh, summer was definitely solid. Um, fat bikes still going strong. We had a really strong road year kinda out of nowhere.
8:52
But, uh, uh, gravel bikes are definitely hitting it pretty heavy. Um- Yeah, I c- I came up with- And, uh, yeah... a new term for, for my, uh...
9:01
I've been riding a, a, a road bike, drop bar bike with, um, you know, 700C by 40 tires on it. I'm like, "We need a new category." Yeah. I don't wanna call it monster cross. I wanna call it road plus,
9:13
'cause we need more stuff with- Road plus... we need more stuff with plus in it. Yeah. [laughs] But yeah, you know, it's- Exactly...
9:18
[laughs] I hadn't really been riding road bikes for probably, like, five or six years often at all, and I'm like, "Wow, I forgot how fast these things are." [laughs] Oh, yeah. Especially if you're...
9:28
Yeah, spending your time building up your legs on fat bikes, you get on those things, it's like, wow. And [laughs]
9:33
but, uh, you know, and really with the, with the gravel bikes, we have so many cool gravel trails around us, and pretty decent lengths, uh, as well.
9:42
So it makes sense for people trying to avoid getting hit by automobiles to adapt to crushed limestone. Right on. Yeah, they, they pretty much paved over everything here. We really don't have, in our area anyway...
9:55
There are cr- obviously crushed limestone- Yeah... paths in Wisconsin, but our own area, they seem to like that, uh, asphalt machine. [laughs] Yeah, Illinois doesn't have any money, so there you go.
10:05
[laughs] Well, right on. Cool. [laughs] All right, man. So, uh, everybody, everybody, go down there that weekend.
10:12
Uh, September 24th is the Fat Bike Sunset Beach Cruise, but there's other stuff going on down there at Zion Cyclery that Chris would be happy to illuminate you about over there. Absolutely.
10:24
Just go to our website at zioncyclery.com, and there's a splash page, and it'll take you to all the events pages. Boy, that was some techie talk you just said right there. [laughs] Splash page.
10:34
[laughs] Slash, slash, W-W. Right? All right, Chris. Well, thanks very much for calling in and telling us about the event. I, you know, have been down there myself several times, and it's always a good time.
10:44
I say go to this event. The Sven- Thank you... seal of approval. Do it. [laughs] Do it. Oh, all right. All right, Chris. Thanks again. We'll talk to you soon. Go take care of those kiddos. Yeah, thanks guys. All right.
11:00
Hey, Chris Daisy, everybody from Zion Cyclery. Very, very awesome. Go to that event. Whoop. Whoop. It's Top of the Hill time, isn't it? Yeah. And by cracky, I think we're finally gonna kill off the Oscar Blues.
11:13
It's coming close. This, this, this week. [laughs] If not, I, I take no responsibility. [laughs] Uh, thanks Oscar Blues. That really lasted a long time. Hell, yeah. Hey, let's do this thing.
11:22
We'll take a real quick break, and then when we come back, we're gonna have today's special guest, Mr. Kevin Ren, on the program. We'll be right back.
11:32
[upbeat music] Chumba USA builds innovative, technically superior bicycles that are race ready, ride driven, and tested to withstand the harshest conditions and tackle the toughest and roughest terrain.
11:48
Learn more about Chumba's American-made Ursa Major at chumbausa.com. [upbeat music] You're tuned to Fat Bike Radio. Hey, welcome back to the show everybody.
12:07
It's time for our special guest, Mr. Kevin Ren. He's, he's a longtime bike industry player. Welcome to the show, Kevin. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
12:17
Yeah, you know, for the benefit of our viewers back home, uh, Kevin has extensive bike industry experience and is the owner of Ren Sports.
12:25
Ren makes the inverted suspension fork that Nomez right now is, uh, he's got that bolted on the front of our Blackjack Fat E Carbon that we're reviewing, and I think he's gonna get a product spotlight up soon, maybe.
12:38
Sweet. Yeah, yeah. Sweet. Look forward to it. So that's on that, uh, Blackjack. Is that, do you work with those guys? Uh, we have not yet, no. Right on. Well, somebody threw one on there [laughs].
12:47
So obviously this will get us a little bit of exposure.
12:49
Yeah, no, you know, it's been a, a slow process, obviously, with, um, you know, a new brand, and, uh, with something as prominent as the front end of a bicycle, um, OEM spec was, uh, out of the question the first year, and, uh, we've done quite well this year, so we're excited for that, and, uh, hopefully get a little bit more as we go along.
13:11
Right on. But we're not working with Blackjack at the moment, but this could be good depending upon what Gomez has to say. Right [laughs].
13:18
Yeah, so when Rob put the, uh, terminology of, uh, extensive experience in the introduction, can you share the highlights with our listener? Y- yeah, I'll, I'll tell you quickly as I can. Um, I got really lucky.
13:31
I, um, my education, I spent four years in the seminary, and, uh, realized that wasn't for me, and went out and started selling office supplies door to door, and, um, came upon a Japanese company, uh, didn't know what they did, and, um, turned out to be Shimano, and was offered a job with them back in 1980, and, uh,
13:54
really was the luckiest thing that ever happened in terms of my career. Uh, I got to work directly for Yoshi Shimano, and, uh, I was given a, a pretty, uh, real good, powerful position in my opinion.
14:07
I was the OEM sales manager, and at the time, Shimano couldn't give product to the dealer. It was absolutely impossible.
14:15
It was, uh, Campagnolo, Huret, Simplex, um, and our business was basically the American Mass Merchants, AMF, Huffy, Columbia. So r- And so- You're talking about what, like, in the r- early '80s right now, right?
14:28
This is kind of the time- Yeah, I, I was with them from '80 to '86, and, um, you know, we were the precursor to the, the, the Dura-Ace and how the, uh, index shifting was Positron.
14:39
We were selling that stuff to, uh, Huffy. We did a product called Aero Wind, which was, you know, it was a joke, honestly.
14:47
But, you know, it was all the precursor to the stuff that, uh, is now, uh, you know, the prominent brand, uh, at the highest end. It's, it's an interesting experience.
14:56
You know, most companies, they start at the high end and the product trickles down.
15:00
Um, Shimano is proof that you can sell into multiple markets, and they did it starting at the, you know, very base level, um, with companies like Huffy and Murray and, and Columbia. So- Right on... that was, was great.
15:13
Um, they moved from New Jersey out to California, uh, in '86 or '87, and, uh, my wife refused to make a move to California, so, um, I wound up leaving the industry for a few years, and, uh, was able to come back for a company called Union Fraunhofer, which very few people have probably ever heard of.
15:32
Um- Uh, that's a German company, yeah? Yeah, that's correct, and, uh, at the time they were making, again, plastic pedals for the mass merchants, Huffy, Murray, Columbia, all that, and they were doing galvanized spokes.
15:46
And, um, the other product which was strong in Europe was lighting for road bikes, uh, which was all government controlled and regulated.
15:54
And we developed the first really off-road lighting set, um, which was called the Nite Pro, and we held the first sponsored night ride at Mammoth Mountain back in, like, 1989. Right on. Um- Night riding rules...
16:07
yeah, that was pretty cool. [laughs] A lot of people damn near killed themselves. The, you know, the batteries were these lead-acid things that went in your water bottle cage. Sure.
16:15
Uh, so anyhow, so- I remember those days [laughs]... yeah, it was an interesting experience. We, we damn near killed a few people that night.
16:21
It's like, you know, on our lightweight bikes with the, uh, the water bottle mounts, lightweight aluminum frames, you put those big heavy water bottles in, it doesn't take them long to tear [laughs] the bolts right out of the front of the- Well, you can imagine.
16:30
The, the battery was, like, four and a half pounds- Oh [laughs]... so this thing was like a human, it was a projectile, you know? [laughs] Yeah, for sure. So, but it was cool. Yeah.
16:37
You know, that was one of our adventures to try and get away from mass merchants, and then we also did, um, a product called tie-dye titanium spokes, which, um- I have some of those [laughs]... we basically took...
16:48
Do you? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I, I've still got a wheel set, and I ride them to this day, and that's, you know, Jesus, almost 30 years ago. Yeah, these are on some Cane Creek Crono wheels. Cool. Yeah. Way cool. Yep. Yeah.
16:59
So, um, you know, Union Fraunhofer was cool. Um, we did so well with the business that it got sold.
17:05
Um, I wound up taking a position with Cannondale, which, uh, was the director of the Koda division, which was their private label, uh, components.
17:14
And, uh, probably the major thing we did there was the Magic Motorcycle Koda cranks, which were the hollow CNC super lightweight cranksets, and, you know, it was cool. We did that.
17:25
We did, uh, a suspension seat post where we had licensed the design and brought that to market, and, uh, probably the highlight was working with the Volvo Cannondale guys.
17:34
Um, you know, Scott Montgomery had set that up, uh, and, uh, as a marketing tool, but you got to work with all these great riders, Tinker, you know, Miles Rockwell, Allison Syder, uh, even Missy, who- Yeah [laughs]
17:48
You know what's, you know what's funny about- And that, that said- Well, what's funny about Volvo Cannondale, for whatever reason, their cars were always serviced here at Jenkins Volvo, which is gone now, but in Milwaukee, so we'd always see these, you know, the team cars, and every once in a while, one was a little bit bent up, and I think Missy may have had something to do [laughs] with a couple of those.
18:07
Yeah, I'm sure she did. It was, you know, it was a great experience. I think at the time I was in my early 30s, and I was considered the old man of the group. Um, it, it was a wild time, absolutely wild, so. Right on.
18:19
It's unfortunate what happened there, um, you know, going public and trying to create a motorcycle division.
18:26
Um, a lot of people got screwed in the process, and it's, uh, one of those experiences from corporate America I'll never forget.
18:33
Um, a lot of people in Bedford, Pennsylvania got screwed, um, and a very few limited number of people walked away with a lot of money, so- Yeah... that kind of sucked. Yeah.
18:43
You know, but, um, I was lucky, I got out of there. Uh, Bell Sports was looking for somebody to manage their service cycle Mongoose, uh, operation. They didn't know what to do with it.
18:55
And, um, I went out to work for, for Bell and wound up, uh, becoming their vice president of product development for all non-helmet brands. So it was Blackburn, Road Gear, uh, Vistalight.
19:07
Um, great experience, you know, um, uh, working with some really professional people, and coming from Cannondale, where, you know, it was kinda Nikita Khrushchev type of stuff.
19:17
You could take your shoes off and pound it on the table. [laughs] You know, um, I was getting called into HR every other day at, at, uh, Bell Sports.
19:26
But, you know, there again, it was a, a corporation, and a lot of people got screwed with, um, you know, transfers to, uh, going public, going private, back and forth, and the same people made a lot of money, and a lot of people got screwed.
19:39
Um, so I, uh- There seems to be a common theme with corporate America here. [laughs] Well, you know, it, it's interesting because, uh, my younger brother has had a tremendous, uh, history in, in corporate America.
19:53
Uh, he was a regional president for AT&T and the president of Comcast Cable Europe. And so we come from the same parents but have completely different views of what's the right thing to do in, in corporate America.
20:05
So, um, you know, that having been said, I, I got a sweet severance package when I left Bell, um, and wound up buying an aquarium cleaning business here in the Bay Area, which was a lot of fun, a lot of interesting, but I didn't know a damn thing about, you know, uh, parasites and- [laughs]...
20:22
stuff like that. Um, I was fortunate enough to find a guy, uh, a competitor, and we together patented a, uh, a product that he had developed, an aquarium gravel machine, which, uh, was pretty cool.
20:35
We raised three-quarters of a million bucks and, uh, paid for some molds.
20:39
And, um, we still do own the patent, and, uh, it's one of those things that, uh, you know, it, it gets in your blood, this entrepreneur-type thing, and, uh, we never made a lot of money off of it.
20:51
We probably should have sold the, the patent a long time ago, but, [smacks lips] you know, it's one of those things where I love, um, small business.
20:58
Um, while I was working on that, I took a position with the Bike Cooperative. Don't know if you guys are familiar with that.
21:05
It's, uh, 300 bike shops or so, um, that came together and, uh, negotiated deals for them with rebates back from, uh, various suppliers, you know? Right, to get the- So-...
21:15
the buying power of the bigger group of people buying. Yeah, it never really came together as well- Right... as it should have because dealers continued to buy the same shit they bought from the last guy, you know?
21:24
They, they, they're hard to change what they do. Um, [clears throat] but it, it in theory is exactly what the independent dealers need, as you know.
21:32
You know, a lot of bike shops are really suffering, and, uh, [sighs] you know, uh, I hate to see it happen, but, um, you know, s- everything changes, and, uh, they had been able to stave off the, uh, internet for a long, long time, and, um, I don't think they embraced it the way they should have, and so a lot of bike shops went out of business.
21:51
You know, there were 10,000 when I worked for Shimano in the '80s, and I'd say there's 3,000 now, and maybe 2,500 of them can pay their bills, you know? Yeah.
22:00
Well, it seems like at least in our area, one, one'll go down, and then another one'll come in, and some guys will be real enthusiastic for six or seven years, and then they kinda wane on it or whatever.
22:11
But we've seen also an influx of, like, larger regional, you know, shops that have, like, 20, 30 locations kind of sneaking into our area now. Well, and, and see, that's a, that's another problem.
22:22
You know, the independent guy is losing his ability to be independent, and so he thinks he needs to have...
22:27
I'm not being critical of any of the big brands, but you gotta have either Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Giant, one, one of those, you know? And, um, the reality is they don't.
22:38
And so they're, they're subsidizing the 20-store, uh, chains who are able to get all the deep discounts, to be able to get flown to the big events, to test all the cool product, and go to the Tour de France and visit with, you know, one of the key riders.
22:54
You know, it's, it's pretty cool stuff for the big guys, but the little guys are paying for it, and as you guys know very well, there's a, there's a ton of manufacturing done in Asia,
23:04
um, by a very limited number of people, and they're putting one guy's brand on it one day and another guy's brand on it another day.
23:10
And the quality, and again, I won't mention some of the second- or third-tier perceived brands, but the reality is those bikes are just as good.
23:19
Uh, you know, there are some differences at the high end, but for the, the, the medium average consumer, you know, there are some great values in second-tier and third-tier brands. Right.
23:29
Um, they just don't have the money to spend on the marketing and the, the sponsorships and stuff like that, so. Well, it's where, you know, it's where a lot of...
23:35
A, a bike shop, if a guy is passionate about it and he gets into one of these, you know, maybe second- or third-tier brands you're talking about, if the guy gets behind it, he does stuff, he goes riding with people, he sets events up, blah, blah, blah, he's gonna make that thing look pretty good, and, you know, people buy the experience, you know, as much as they would buy the product.
23:53
You know, it, "I want a bike. Well, I gotta feel good about buying it- Absolutely... and I need the experience, so I'm gonna go with this guy that's doing something cool." Yep. Personally, that's what I would do.
24:00
I, I agree. You know, what, what are you buying? You're buying the, the guy who sells you the product.
24:04
If, if you go in and ask for a Wren product and the guy had a bad experience- He should tell you, "Look, you know, I bought from these guys, here's the problem that I had. Um, you want me to custom order something?
24:14
I can, but here's what I've got."
24:16
And these guys already have inventory tied up because they're forced by these same companies that call themselves partners to buy 80% of next year's purchases in this June and July when they fly us in.
24:28
If you and I own a, a bike shop, they're courting us, they're bringing us into these super resorts, we're riding all the new cool stuff, and then they leverage us to give them 80%, 85% of our total needs for next year when we don't even know what the hell we're gonna sell this year.
24:42
Right. You still got July, August, September. It's the stupidest damn system, and like lemmings, the dealers just line right back up and do the same goddamn thing.
24:52
It's, you know, it's frustrating, and there's, um- Would the man- Go ahead...
24:57
would the, uh, would, would the manufacturers kind of argue that, "Oh, we've got this 18-month development time, and we really need to project out what we need to build so you guys can have what you need to sell," and, you know, there's, like, that flip side of the coin thing?
25:08
But I, I agree with you that it's, it's, uh, it's strong-armed, uh, tactics to make somebody go that deep into your line and spend that much of their money on your solo product, but, um, you know- Agreed.
25:21
Well, let's say you and I own a bike comp- a bike shop, and we went in and we bought all this stuff last July, and the stuff starts to come in.
25:28
Let's say we're based in Maine or we're based in, you know, somewhere where the weather ain't gonna break until May, and we're starting to get shipments in January, February, March, 'cause they're forcing us to take these shipments.
25:40
And [clears throat] come April, when we haven't even sold our first bike, they're running sales, and that's what happened all over the industry this year because they didn't forecast correctly.
25:50
And, you know, we're lucky. We're in a niche category. Right. We're in fat bikes, and we're then even in a further niche, which is suspension for fat bikes.
25:58
And so- Hey, speaking of suspension for fat bikes- [laughs] Yeah... you guys make a fork. Yeah. We should talk about that thing. [laughs] Please, go ahead. I'd love to.
26:06
[laughs] I am enjoying talking about the bike industry in general- [laughs]... because I just, I've been in it since, you know, the mid-'80s as well. Well, you didn't even ask me any stories about, you know- [laughs]...
26:15
naked ex-bosses or nothing. So we'll jump right to the fork- Well, I-... 'cause I, you know, really- Well, here-... I wanna take advantage of the opportunity.
26:22
Here is, here's the thing, Gomez is not with us today, so normally all of the lewdness would come from, from him probably. [laughs] Okay, great. No. Well, I, I took out a bottle of scotch.
26:32
I thought I'd give myself a shot for every F-bomb I drop. Oh, right. Oh, nice. [laughs] Comes from the days at the seminary. Does, does fork count as an F-bomb? 'Cause... [laughs] It, it does.
26:42
So while we talk- It, it does...
26:44
so you talked a little bit before about how very few places in, in Taiwan or China make very many of the things that we all see under different names, and the, the fork that you guys currently sell here is a product that, in the past, has had many different names.
27:00
So what, what- Yeah, I think that's a good point. I, I appreciate you bringing that up. Um, yeah, I mean, uh, uh, what, what the history was for us, um, we were familiar with the fork. Carver sold it, Eleven9 sold it.
27:13
Uh, there were, there were a few other people who brought it in private label on bikes. And, um, when I decided to start the business, um, the factory owner who was making these forks is a longtime friend.
27:24
He, um, he has his PhD from Ohio State, Taiwanese. And while I was talking to him about our plans for Rand Sports, um, he asked me if I was interested in the fork of many names.
27:36
And, uh, I immediately, you know, recognized the fork, uh, had a great look, and, um, from some discussions, I knew people were interested.
27:45
And, um, I, I knew we had something, and we placed a small order just like Carver, Eleven9, and everybody else did. And in the process of doing that, we realized that there were some issues with the fork.
27:57
While it was significantly better than what's out in the marketplace, we knew that we could make some improvements, but we didn't wanna do that and then compete with Carver, Eleven9, and everybody else.
28:07
So- With all your hard work in their forks, right. Well, you know, um, uh, and common sense.
28:13
In the best interest of the factory, if you wanna maintain a sound price, you know, let's say, and I'm not, again, I'm not picking on anybody, but let's say Carver had cashflow issues and they needed to buy, you know, frames, or they needed to do something else, and they start dumping forks 'cause they bought too many.
28:29
Now all of a sudden I gotta match the price, so I have no interest in that. Right. Right.
28:33
And when you explain that to an OEM maker, it's a little surprising to them because they'll slap your brand on it one day and somebody else's brand on it the next.
28:42
And what we were able to show them is that, A, here are some simple improvements you can make to the fork. That was pretty obvious. Um, we brought in 50 forks.
28:54
We were able to get them in the hands of some really significant, uh, riders, people who used the product, beat the crap out of the product, and came back to us and said, "Well, here are some other areas that you can improve."
29:07
So we did things like we redesigned the crown for stiffness. Uh, that was early on. Yep.
29:13
We, we keyed the stanchions because one of our customers is a mountain bike tandem manufacturer, and he was getting torsional movement at the hub, and so we- Oh, yeah...
29:23
invested keying the uppers, and, um, that helped quite a bit. So from that, we then went back to the factory and said...
29:31
And we had also gotten some investment money, um, which gave us the ability to then go back to the factory and say, "Look, take all the orders from everybody in North America. How many did you sell last year?
29:42
Here's a purchase order for that many. And oh, by the way, here's what, what else we want you to do." And so we were able to negotiate an exclusive for North America.
29:52
Um, we have since implemented, because it's a modular system, we now have 100 millimeter hub spacing, 110 boost hub spacing, 135 fat, 150 fat.
30:04
And again, because it's a cartridge system, we offer two different settings of
30:10
Travel, one that is 110 and one that's 150, within each one has an extra 10 millimeters that is a urethane bumper to prevent absolute destruction of the fork.
30:20
So you really have 120 and 160, but you don't wanna lose th- use those last 10, uh, millimeters. We've, we've done a lot more things to the fork.
30:29
We've made the bushing stronger and more durable, improving the stiffness of the fork.
30:35
We just introduced a new quick release axle, again, to improve stiffness and durability, which, you know, um, when you look at us compared to, uh, the industry standard for fat bike suspension forks, um, the stiffness and durability of our fork originally was far superior.
30:51
The current model that's going out now is second to none. I mean, I, I absolutely guarantee people satisfaction with the fork. Right on. Um, we've done an improvement on the original lubrication of the fork.
31:05
We are getting better performance and, um, extreme cold weather performance, where, uh, you know, previous tests were done in a laboratory in Taiwan where w- they could run it in a machine and get it down to minus 50, but it's not real world experience.
31:19
It's not when you're getting grit and crap and all that down into the, the seals- Right, right... and, you know, having these things lock up.
31:26
And for a fork that's supposed to be a year-round, if not a snow fork, you know, riding rigid because your suspension is locked up just doesn't work. Sure.
31:36
Um, we've introduced a new system called TwinAir, which really is an amazing, um, development for us. Um, gives the rider way more adjustability, um, than a single air system.
31:49
Um, we divide the, uh, the positive, uh, air chamber into two parts and we reduce the volume of each chamber, which allows the fork to, um, start more easily so you don't get that initial hesitation.
32:03
And then once it is set up properly, you can add volume to the top. You're not adding pressure, you're adding volume to the top or volume to the lower.
32:13
Top if you wanna get a plusher ride, bottom if you wanna get a stiffer ride. So, you know, where a lot of the, um, other dual chamber forks, um,
32:23
they have a positive and a negative, um, element to their, to their chambers, um, our TwinAir system is, is completely unique and really gives you way more adjustability.
32:34
So, you know, in, in North America, w- we are the, the, uh, source of the fork now. It is 100% Wren Sports.
32:42
Um, the factory does- Well, it kind of sounds like you guys have done a lot of the, you know, the legwork to make it a viable product that you wanna represent, so I think it only makes sense that you guys are the, the king of the fork in this year- Well-...
32:53
of, of 50 United- I, I know my experiences. You know, um, if, if you buy a fork, the fork sells for $950 for our, our 150 millimeter travel.
33:03
We enforce a minimum advertised price, so the fork is a $1,000 retail fork, and people that are buying it are getting great value from it.
33:10
And going online, your, your blogs are a great source for people to, to look at comments from people who have actually bought the fork, who have previously had a Pluto, et cetera. Um, we are focused on the rider.
33:22
If you spent $1,000 on my fork, I wanna make sure that you're gonna get it serviced.
33:27
If you've got a race coming up next week, we set up a system of, um, factory-trained, uh, service centers around the country, and these people have been outfitted with service parts.
33:39
They've been trained how to service the fork. It isn't that difficult. Um, actually, you know, the truth of the matter is the, the entire system can be handled with, um, very few tools.
33:51
There's a 26 millimeter socket, a 27 millimeter socket, a pair of bent nose pliers, and a, what is it, a one and a half millimeter wrench, an Allen wrench, and a two millimeter Allen wrench.
34:01
You can take the whole damn fork apart. Um, if you're into Amazon, you can, you can, uh, disassemble the fork- [laughs]... and put it together with those few... That's the truth. I mean, but- Yeah...
34:12
a- again, if you spent $1,000 on the fork, I wanted to make sure that you get your fork back in time for the race.
34:17
I don't want you going to a shop and the guy goes, "Yeah, I can order those parts," and they never do and you never get your... You know what I mean? Right, sure. So it was easy to do that. It r- it really was.
34:27
Um, fixing the cold weather issues that Pluto has, it was just a matter of applying some, some, you know, some science to the thing to get it done and, and some real world experience.
34:38
Um, it's, it's just not that difficult. You know, we, we used to sell the bash guards, so we, we now supply carbon bash guards with it included. Um, they're cool, but they're really, really expensive.
34:51
Um, we start getting orders with every fork, somebody ordered a set of bash guards and we'd say, "Jesus, you know, this, this isn't right. If everybody needs it, we should supply it." So we now include the bash guards.
35:02
Pricing never changed. Uh, the introduction of the TwinAir system, our pricing has never changed. So we're really looking to create a great value with our, our dealers. And our, well, dealers and, and the consumers.
35:14
Ultimately it's the consumer. Sure. Um, and we've got a few core dealers that are really doing a great job with us, and I, I thank them for the early support.
35:21
We, we wouldn't have survived, uh, if we didn't have a core, you know, base of business the first couple of years, so.
35:28
So- Now the good news, we, we've got an order from, um, Borealis Bikes, uh, in the last two weeks and, uh, they now offer the fork as a high-end build on all of their bikes.
35:40
Um, and, uh, we expect two other majors, uh, between now and Taichung Bike Week, where we'll, we'll be exhibiting the stuff over there and trying to finalize a couple more OEM deals. Cool.
35:51
So we're gonna see more- So people will see in the floor now more... more forks. That's good. Yep. You know, it- It is good, yeah... so you guys have improved on it.
35:58
Um, I know there's, you know, n- no small number of people out there that have old versions of the same basic fork, whether it be a Carver 119, whatever. Is that, can you still service those? Good, good question.
36:08
Can you- Yeah Um, for the most part, um, our, all of our older forks, most of our older forks can be upgraded. Um, the original, original forks will take new bushings, they'll take a new damper, they'll take...
36:21
We, we have new travel clips now which will allow you to adjust your travel in 10 millimeter increments or travel and axle crown lengths.
36:30
So with simple travel clips, which we include with the forks, you can adjust travel or travel and axle crown.
36:38
So, um, the other thing that they can't do with the older forks, though, would be to install the new TwinAir system. Okay. So they can get the bushings, they can get the dampers, and they can get the travel clips.
36:49
Um, the new quick releases will work on, um, the newer version. We did, um, as I mentioned, we did the initial standard fork with many names, um, that did not have a, um, conical dropout surface.
37:03
Um, and, uh, so that will not take the new quick release. It's only the newer versions, which was from the time we introduced the keyed stanchions, so. Okay.
37:12
Um, most of the forks, we didn't, we didn't put out a lot of the original, original. Like I said, we bought 50 of them.
37:17
We knew there were some issues with it, and from then on, uh, the keyed stanchions, everything there can be fully upgraded. Right on.
37:24
I'm just thinking of the 11-9 I have parted out in a box that I wanna get, uh, just operational again to some extent. Sure. [laughs] Sure.
37:33
No, we have, you know, the, the, the real advantage of, of riding around not only the service centers is, you know, we're accessible. My partner Russ and I, um, y- you have a question, he's really the technical expert.
37:46
He can walk you through the entire disassembly and reassembly. Um, we have every little screw, O-ring, detent ball, you name it. Um, if you're rebuilding your fork, we, we have everything you need.
37:59
So it's the right way to do things. Um, we try to be as responsive as possible to the riders and, um, you know, it's, it's been great. Um, our factory partners have backed us up. Um,
38:12
uh, an example of that is, uh, we've had some issues with, uh, hose clamps. Guys were asking why the fork didn't come with, with hose guides.
38:20
And so, you know, after some very quick discussions with the factory, it took less than three weeks to tool it up, and we're now in production and we're including a set of, uh, cable guides.
38:29
So it's little things like that- Sure... that we can react to, and, uh, we don't have to bump it up some corporate board to say, you know, "Can we spend $1,500 on a piece of tooling?"
38:38
Uh, we look at each other and say it's the right thing to do, and we do it, so. Cool. And it's fun, you know? We're, we're having a blast doing what, uh, what we're doing, so. What else can I tell you? I don't know.
38:50
What else- We- What about, what about other fat bike stuff? Well, we- What, I saw you have a bunch of carbon components, which obviously could be applied to a fat bike, but... Yes.
38:58
I mean, we do a 35 millimeter, 840, uh, width bar, uh, for downhillers. Um, we do other sizes as well. We do super lightweight aluminum stems. They are the lightest ISO-certified stems in the marketplace.
39:14
Um, defy anybody to pull out a production ISO stem, um, Thompson, uh, Richie, uh, we are a third lighter and probably half the price.
39:25
Um, it's because we wanna deliver really high quality products to consumers at great value and, um, it supports the brand. We're, we're going to make it or break it on our suspension.
39:37
Um, the other things that we do are nice complements with really high quality products that we're proud to put our name on.
39:43
We do a very innovative, um, uh, rear rack that is adjustable from one-inch tires up to five-inch wide, um, little cam bolts on the side that allow you to, to widen the rack, and adjustable from 26-inch tire to 29 plus.
40:01
So a, a dealer, for example, um, can stock that one rack and service multiple customers from a one-inch tire to a five-inch tire. You know what I mean?
40:10
I'm eyeballing it, I'm eye- eyeballing it on the interwebs right now. That's, that's a... I somehow skipped right over that when I was looking- Look at the price... Yeah, look at that thing. Wow. Look at the price.
40:18
I mean, it's, it's ridiculous. Um, the quality of what we deliver, you know, um, and the value of what we deliver, um, is second to none. Our, our handlebar manufacturer makes for every name brand on the planet.
40:31
Um, they make for Cannondale, they make for, uh, Salsa. You know, it's, it's that OEM, um, business model, you know?
40:42
Um, these guys need to feed the factory, and one day they're making 3T seat posts and the next day they're making mine. Sure. Well, right on, man.
40:51
I mean, it's b- I, uh, I knew you had a lot of knowledge in your noggin and, [laughs] Yeah, it's amazing. I- You know, all the shit they told you as a kid, you know- [laughs]...
41:00
watch out for this or that, you'll, you know, you'll never, uh, be able to use your brain.
41:04
Well, I, I, I think, I think it's pretty obvious we could do another show with you for sure, but, uh, I wanna thank you for coming on the show this week and giving us the lowdown on the fork and, you know, I know Gomez has already had good things to say and his reveal will be coming up later this month, so, um- Great...
41:19
maybe you'll, you'll- I'm looking forward to that... maybe you'll run into him down at the Interbike.
41:23
Well, we, we appreciate it, and like I said earlier, if people are interested in, um, more information on the forks, the best place to get it is your blog, um, your competitor, MTBR.com, their, their blog is also a great source for honest feedback from people who are spending $950.
41:41
I... It's a rare day you get a bro buddy deal out of us. Um, you know, we're a small company, we're pushing a big rock up the hill. Yep.
41:49
And, um, I'm very happy to see some of the comments that people are making and, um, we're accessible. You got our emails, you got our phone numbers, and you got- And-... issues with something, let me know...
41:59
the website is wrennsports.com. Yes, sir, it is. With a W and a R and a E- It is... and an N. It is. Yep. All right, Kevin, we- Like the bird.
42:09
[laughs] We're gonna, we're gonna roll through this puppy, but thanks very much for joining us. I really appreciate you spending- My pleasure... the time and, uh, I don't know, you didn't seem to get to drink any scotch.
42:18
I, I, I didn't- [laughs] I was gonna say, so- Top of the hill... at least I got that, you know? [laughs] Hey, Chuck, join us at the top of the hill. You got it. Thanks. Thanks, guys. All right, Kevin. Thank you. Bye bye.
42:28
Bye bye. Holy mackerel, does that guy have the knowledge. Well- I mean, he just has all the experience really. You know, the knowledge comes from the experience. So I, I could talk to him all day long.
42:38
I think everybody's like, "You guys aren't talking about fat bike stuff over there at fatbike.com." [laughs] I'm pretty sure I was, like, tuned in because you guys always do stupid stuff on the radio and, um... Oh, wait.
42:51
Oh, you're doing it now, so that [laughs] so that's okay. You know, uh, Nomez did call in and, uh, and then he, and then he didn't anymore.
43:01
But I will tell you what, we do have a caller on the li- Hey, you know what we should do? Let's take a quick break and when we come back, we're, we're gonna have a caller on the line. You know what I'm saying?
43:11
Hey, so listen up. This is your brain. La, la, la-la, la-la. Sing a happy song. La, la, la-la, la-la. Smurf the whole day long And this is your brain on plusbikes.com.
43:27
[upbeat rock music] Any questions? This is Chris Daisy from Zion Cyclery, but you can call me Captain Awesome. You're tuned to Fat Bike Radio.
43:46
Hey, welcome back to the radio program. Before we slide into that fabulous- [coughs]... Fatty Farm Field Report, let's take a call from one of our longtime listeners. Well- Hi, longtime listener. Longtime listener.
44:00
Hey, hey. [laughs] What's up, Old Bear? Hey, nothing much. High atop the Boom Boom Room here at Ryla Health and Rehab, it's Old Bear.
44:10
[laughs] Did you- I'm feeling pretty good tonight except, eh, you know, I'm 64, just, you know, things are catching up. [laughs] You betcha.
44:21
Did you, you, you were o- I, I know you were on the horn for most of that Kevin Ren, uh, deal. He's... Boy, does that guy have a lot of knowledge. He's neat. Holy mackerel. That's neat. Yes, he does.
44:30
Oh, you just listen to his list. He, we didn't even get through all of what he's done before I'm like, "Yeah, this is, we gotta kinda move on a little bit."
44:37
[laughs] But, uh, um, he just, he's been, been so successful in so many things that when he puts his mind to something like that- Yeah...
44:43
suspension fork, you, you know what, you're gonna get a good thing out of it, for sure. That's true,
44:49
especially with a, you know, network of technicians across the country, across the globe that can rebuild your fork at a moment's notice. That's great. I just wish I had $1,000 to buy one.
45:03
[laughs] Th- This running the- $5,000, I'd be out of here. [laughs] It'd be out of the, be out of the, uh, the, the home there? Hope so. Yeah. Man. Yeah. Hey, guess what? Well, Bear,
45:18
I- I was just gonna say- Got Cubby sitting back here behind me, strong. Oh, cool... my little sidekick. Right on. He won't say a thing. [laughs] Are, are you getting any riding in lately? Um, been hot the last few days.
45:33
Oh, yeah. And I'm fighting something with my neck and my stomach. It seems that, um... I went in the hospital about two or three weeks ago.
45:43
Was, they thought I was having a stroke and they found out that I have discs in my neck that are kinda going away and it's pinching nerves and causing numbness and nausea. Hmm, that doesn't sound fun.
45:58
All kinds of fun stuff. So they put me on some medicine, some muscle relaxant. It helps a little bit, but, uh, I don't throw up enough when I'm just nauseous- [laughs]... so I can get out and ride.
46:09
Well, you're not- I don't know- You're not doing it right if you're not throwing up. [laughs] Well, I can't do that sort of thing in here. I can't have the alcohol.
46:18
[laughs] Plus, I'm not allowed to have alcohol with all my medications. I hear that. That could be a, a... That could be actually a fun trip. I don't know.
46:26
All right, Old Bear, uh, we gotta get finished with this thing 'cause we're coming up on, uh, the witching hour, but, um, thanks for calling in. Call in, uh, anytime you want.
46:36
If you wanna, you know, hang out and listen to the rest of the show, I'm gonna put you back in the queue. Yeah. Put, put him back in the box. Hey, when are we gonna be out here again like this?
46:45
I think we're g- You know, now that the season's started, I know that, uh, next week we're doing a, kind of a pre-Interbike thing, and then- Yeah...
46:52
In- Interbike happens, so w- we, uh, something might happen from out there, something might not, but starting after Interbike, I think we're back to a little more regular schedule for sure. We w- you know- Okay.
47:02
We'll be doing- During, during, during the height of the s-... those, right...
47:04
yeah, during the height of the season, you know, between, you know, end of October and the end of, um, you know, March or whatever, I think we'll be doing it every week again just because there's gonna be- That's good...
47:14
enough to talk about. I mean, you know, so... All right, Old Bear. Yeah. Um, I'll, I'll talk to you guys later. Please tell Gomez I send him my love. Yeah. [laughs] I'll send him your love, all right. Thanks.
47:25
Thanks, Old Bear. [laughs] Hey. Hey, that was Old Bear. I guess that gets us into the, uh, Fatty Farm Failed Retort. The Fatty Farm Failed Report is brought to you by Richey.
47:41
The folks at Richey have a special offer to our readers and listeners on their Commando frame and fork for just 300- Wait, wait for it, folks... and 75 dollars. $375. Just use the discount code JULIO at the checkout.
47:59
Yeah, and I know that it works because we've had several people say thank you very much, 'cause, uh, this is a frame designed by Tom Richey. It's got custom Tom tubes. It's got...
48:08
I mean, this is the, this is the biz-om for 375. I think, uh, if I, if I... I think I m- I might. I may. I got, I got my birthday money coming soon. [laughs] I'm gonna see what the tally is.
48:20
[laughs] Hey, who doesn't wanna have a Richey? So, uh, we wrapped up the five-part series of gnome-proof gear from our bike black ribbon test crew. See how I got through that in one take? Well done. Wow.
48:32
Now it's time to hear from our readers about what you found indispensable to your fat bike lifestyle. Think of something that you've used and abused over the last few seasons and would go out and buy again.
48:43
Or you just bought a bunch of them right away 'cause you knew you liked it so much for whatever reason.
48:48
Take a good, clear picture of that item and write a paragraph that describes your reasoning behind presenting the highest honor that can be given- Da-da-da-da... the Gnome Proof Seal of Approval.
49:01
[sings] Place your words and pixels in an email to Gomez, and we'll compile the best stories for our next series of episodes. Kevin Metcalf and Paul McKinley are the winners of our Gnome nomenclature contest.
49:18
They both won a Bike Black Ribbon Society Get Lost merit badge. Well done. Well done. And some Fatbike.com stickers. Isn't that from us jerks? [laughs] Yeah.
49:31
[laughs] Hey, hey, speaking of jerks- See how I did that in one take? [laughs] Right, right. Speaking of jerks, um, can you give, uh, can you give a call over to the old pubbery and get us some tacos going? Oh, shit.
49:41
It's like- All right... six minute, the six minute warning. [laughs] Six minutes. Six minutes. Six minutes till you fresh your own. [hums] So we talked about that TT fat bike before.
49:52
I, I, I'm sorry for all you who are looking to hear from Gomez in the show. As we told you earlier on,
49:57
I think he's got something going on up where he is, and, um, he did call in when we were talking to Kevin, but apparently [grunts] didn't have the patience to wait until the end [laughs] of the show. I'm sorry.
50:09
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He is. He's sorry. She's sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Terribly sorry. But I'm not sorry. [laughs] Oh, Mr. Lizard. Want a hamburger? Oh, yeah. You know, there's a couple links up there.
50:22
Here, here, uh, your, your buddies at, uh, Rocky Mountain have jumped onto the 27.5 fat bike train, along with our trekking friends. Got a couple of new ones they introduced out there at Eurobike.
50:37
That's just one continent, folks. We got Interbike coming up here in a couple weeks, which is international. We'll have something from there probably. Anyway, you know what?
50:50
Our show this evening has been brought to you by the bikes, parts, and chaos of Surly Bikes. Learn more at surlybikes.com. Uh, yeah. Could I, uh, um, place an order for a couple tacos for... Right on.
51:07
[laughs] Hey, while you're talking to the taco guy, I'm just gonna tell folks- Oh, yeah. Can I get, uh, two chicken? This is, uh, Greg. Just bean and beef left. Whatever. Two beef. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
51:22
Uh- Be down there in 15... 15, 20. 20. All right. Hey, while JK's finishing that up, call 818-918-2453 anytime- Yeah... day or night... yeah, that's awesome. That's perfect Leave us a message about- All right...
51:34
a fat bike bubble. Buy our stuff. Our stuff is good. [laughs] Where are we? [laughs] That was a lot of work. [laughs] Uh, buy our stuff. It's good. [laughs] Yeah, now it's your turn.
51:50
Join us next time for the occasional dose of fat when we preview the whole guard darn in black. Till then... [laughs] You've been listening to Fat Bike Radio's weekly dose of fat.
52:06
[rock music] Find us on the web at fat-bike.com/radio. We'll see you next time.
52:16
[rock music]
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